Fifth talk with Rita – 12-12-2015

Friday, December 12, 2014

F: 7 a.m. I woke up suddenly, thinking of the question I’m really trying to get to. The two ways of looking at consciousness don’t cohere, and I think if we are on the right track it should make sense of things. We haven’t done that yet.

OT1H – The analogy of the flame is very nice, and clearly we aren’t as separate from others as we sometimes think.

OTOH – If there is a continuing Ernest Hemingway presence, say – or a Rita presence! – how does this square? How can we be both separate and not separate? I can’t even phrase the question very well. What was clear in my mind does not come out clear in words.

Miss Rita, that as good an attempt as I can make. I hope it’s good enough for you to run with – and of course, I am well aware that, chances are, the question was planted.

R: Let’s start with homely analogies. You live in a place – the house you lived in when you rented from me, say. While you are there, that is your life’s center. Your body lives there, and that is where you do your work. You think, you read and write, you communicate, and all your activities, mundane and mental both, take for granted your existence there, on Roberts Mountain Road. You don’t think you are the house, or the community where the house is, but you take for granted that this is your context.

You move to another house, another community. Your memories are the continuity with the consciousness on Roberts Mountain Road, but your new surroundings are your new life’s center. You are the same person as before, yet you are also not the same person. You today know things, have experienced things, have perhaps suffered and enjoyed things, have forgotten things, that the “you” living on Roberts Mountain Road had not. Yet obviously you are a continuity.

So if you look at things as flow, you have to say you changed, time passed, that earlier version of you no longer exists, and no one can say that this is an incorrect summary of the situation.

But if you look at things as a series of situations – snapshots instead of movies, or perhaps better, stills from a movie – it’s different. If every moment of time exists, and does not cease to exist, the snapshots, or stills, are as accurate a description as the movie.

So – are you a continuity? Yes. Are you a definite defined being? Also yes. The confusion about reincarnation and about life in general is rooted in a misperception of time which is rooted in a misperception of reality due, as I indicated earlier, to imperfect apprehension of higher dimensions of reality, collapsing and confusing them into one’s perception of time. As one clarifies one’s perceptions, the nature of things changes. In effect, one lives in a different world.

F: All right, and this ties in to the nature of us as communities.

R: Yes, because it both is and isn’t a mistake to think of continuity in terms of continuity of a given unit. The “you” who lived in my house for those few years did not continue as a unit to move to a new dwelling in another place. As I said, the “you” writing this is not precisely the same “you” as the one of a few years ago. You couldn’t be the same and still experience, for experience alters. And such sequential alteration is the purpose of 3D life, after all. The physical end of things is the hothouse, forcing plants.

But if we leave off thinking of the individual as a unit and think instead of each person as being a community, it may be easier to conceptualize how different members of that community may be more activated or less activated by changes in circumstance. If you cease to live in the woods and move to the city, the part of your community that loved to walk in the woods may become quiescent, and the energy of the over-all unit flow elsewhere, to social interactions, or libraries or whatever.
Two ways of seeing things, both true, neither the whole story.

F: As I was writing that, the thought came to me, each of the pieces of that individual’s community were themselves individuals at some point.

R: Again, both yes and no, but that will advance the argument. Take an historical figure: Thoreau, say, or Abraham Lincoln, to take two of your favorites.

F: Or Ernest Hemingway.

R: Or Ernest Hemingway, but also anyone else who has ever lived, known to history or not. That bundle becomes a strand available to other communities downstream – but not upstream – in the formation of new individuals. That is, after Lincoln lives, his life as a whole provides material to be a strand in a person, as for instance he is in you. Before he lived, he was not available except by reflection.

F: You’ll need to say more about that.

R: Oh, I know it! But, you see, we’re getting somewhere. As I told you a few years back, sometimes, in order to understand A you have to understand B, but to understand B you have to understand A, and in such cases all you can do is keep inching closer by continually refining your understanding of either, then reconsidering the other in the new light, and continuing the process.

F: Stepwise refinement, in metaphysics.

R: Did you think your time as a computer programmer was wasted? You learned certain skills, learned certain concepts and ways of thinking.

So next we need to look at the nature of time. It is true that time exists. It does not flow, consciousness flows, and in the body it is experienced as flowing one way and one way only. There is a reason for that. It is experienced in a way that echoes the reality of change.

Consider the pyramids, to use your old example. You cannot tear them down before they were built. You cannot write on the walls of a building before it is erected. You can’t marry a person before he or she is born. There is a sequence to things, and it is not arbitrary. It has its inherent logic.

Just because time is not what it appears, does not mean it can be anything and everything someone can imagine it to be. Every moment of time exists, but it exists, as you exist, as the sum of what preceded it, and as the seed of what will follow it. The fact that the movie may be viewed out of order, and the stills considered separately and at random, does not mean that the movie itself is out of order, separate or random.

So, to return to Lincoln, he is available as a package, as a new unit, as a new strand, for individuals, downstream from his life. But prior to 1809 there was no Lincoln (thank you for the date, which I plucked from your memories). Prior to 1809 the strands that went into the making of Lincoln existed, but the net result of his life – the container as it was frozen by the end of new 3D experience by death – did not. After 1865, it did.

F: When you and I got this material a dozen years ago, that part was never spelled out clearly. The guys – as I thought of them (and still think of them, pending a new way of thinking about them) – talked about patterns, and they said some patterns were worth keeping and others weren’t, and at the time that seemed to you like they were saying some were worthy and some people weren’t.

R: You weren’t able to give us a very clear picture at that point, because the concept was too unfamiliar, and your mind couldn’t help trying to make sense of what you were getting in light of where you were, what you knew. What would have been clearer would be to say that some people’s lives create a new pattern that can be used as one strand in a new bundle, and many people’s are not sufficiently different to serve in that way. That doesn’t mean the ones that are not different enough to serve as patterns were failures, or were discarded. It means from the point of view considering flow, they can be disregarded. Remember, at the time, the guys were working on giving us a new way to see the world. Side-trails would have confused the issue, so they often ignored them. Besides, side-trails lead in all directions, and anyway there’s not really a difference between the main trail and a side-trail. It all depends on where you feel like going. If you want to go explore some bright object you see out of the corner of your eye, there’s nothing to prevent you from doing so.

F: Thank you, Rita. This really does bring some clarity to things.

R: Whose mouth was it that told me, “the better the question, the better the answer”?

F: A lot of consequences from that meeting at the hospital elevator, Rita!

R: And they don’t end – downstream.

F: I hear that. Thanks, and until later.

8 a.m. That was pretty good. More than pretty good. That really began clarifying things.

22 thoughts on “Fifth talk with Rita – 12-12-2015

  1. Frank? If you don`t mind, this particular session of Rita`s and yours seems to correspond with session 423 of Jane`s in book 9 of The Early Sessions. It is said to be “coming from” The Whole Entity of Seth.
    To quote:
    (At first comments by her husband: Once again the new personality`s voice was high and thin and clear and distant. As usual sentences were often ended on an upbeat. Jane began with eyes closed, many pauses).

    Good evening (the same reply by Robert Butts, Good Evening).
    The window is clearer and more transparent, and the channels are therefore clearer.
    Many elements separate us, but time and space have little to do with distances between us. Coordinates must intersect, it is true, and yet once such a neutral area is arranged, there must be a lack of fiction.(Many pauses this paragraph).
    In your terms, friction might be compared to the winds and storms of the physical atmosphere. In your terms however, the friction is emotional in tone. There must be openings through storms of fear, doubts or angers. These are natural to you, but they do not apply to me.

    When conditions are good, then, we may take advantage of the proper coordinates. They may be activated and used. They are channels, opening, forming clear access through many camouflage systems. We are not aware of your personal lives in any detail, nor do we completely understand your activities.
    We are aware of you in very different terms. We understand your reality and interpret in ways that you would not understand. We are aware of a change in this contact, that makes our condition more advantageous.

    We consider fear an extremely primitive use of energy, as you might consider fire primitive in comparison nuclear activity.
    Fear we understand, however, as a barrier thrown up in panic; and it is of tremendous force (pause), it`s intensity having nothing to do… (pause), we are not sure of the word… percent-age-wise… with the stimuli that caused it.
    These primitive forces are strong, binding you and not us. Ruburt (Jane), under such circumstances, cannot travel symbolically from his own atmosphere, though the contacts at our end may be clear. We sense your emanations, and they have changed and are more brilliant.
    You become more noticeable. It is not difficult to find you. (long pause, head down. Jane`s lips moved over soundless words several times. She sat very still, fingers interlaced in her lap.)

    To understand your time, we would have to enter it completely, for it has no meaning but for your subjective experience of it.(Pause.)
    We are aware of what it means to you, and that you consider it a part of your identity, as if the self existed somewhere between two points, on a solid lane. One point representing a birth,and another a death.
    I can obtain a conceptual realization through communicating with other portions of my identity that have experienced it directly.
    It is a confining experience, in which I myself have not chosen to participate. I have participated in other existences and moment points that you might find confining, but that was a challenge to me. (Smile.)
    You are in a far better position than you have been. Your emanations attract more notice, and therefore more attention and help.(Pause. Jane sat quite still, eyes closed. Then she nodded several times. Her hands were still clasped. A minute passed.)

    I`m “jumping” a bit down the page…..
    (When she did resume the new voice was still high, but not as strong, and used many pauses close together.)

    (Eyes closed, Jane began to slowly rotate her head.)
    I do not know how to explain it adequately. Attempting to drain negative qualities and elements from the system so that they may be replaced by positive ones. Activating certain centers and deactivating others.
    This is one of the reason for the slow verbal communication. We are keeping it up so that you will realize we are still in contact.

    The end for now dear ones…. And these sessions are some of the exercise advice for Jane to do about her disease (and healing).

    BTW: Here comes a bit more VERY interesting material told by Jane`s husband.
    (Note that this is the first time that Seth`s larger ENTITY has spoken about personal matters. Jane said she used “they” in talking about Seth and his entity, then said that perhaps there are more than the two of them.)

    The first chapter in the book began with how Emotional Projection can manifest (the same experience has been told about within other books of Jane`s`). And Robert Butts and Jane observed their own emotional projections as another married couple (as themselves) in the same restaurant they were at the time back then.

    ….now, time To Live my “own book.” (He, He.)
    See you later folks!
    LOL, Inger Lise.

    1. Extremely interesting, all of it. And i would find at least equally interesting the parallels you see between this and Rita’s material, if you could care to spell them out explicitly.

  2. Hello Frank.
    Hmm,well,the explicitly will be non-verbal(laughs),because All is One and the same”Case,”as to have learned by now.

    But to be serious about it(I do believe the explicitly will be all things are connected)….It is obvious of us “to have contact” all the way with The Universal Mind(and equally with “the part” of us “inhabiting” the Earth)in our daily doings.
    I have come to see it is not any ambivalence in “to serve” as a channel in whatever form appearing as such….Thanks to you!
    And I am ever grateful for Rita and you.
    A kind of “an full-filling solid basement.”
    B&B, Inger Lise.

  3. I love this!

    “It is true that time exists. It does not flow, consciousness flows, and in the body it is experienced as flowing one way and one way only. There is a reason for that. It is experienced in a way that echoes the reality of change.
    Just because time is not what it appears, does not mean it can be anything and everything someone can imagine it to be. Every moment of time exists, but it exists, as you exist, as the sum of what preceded it, and as the seed of what will follow it. The fact that the movie may be viewed out of order, and the stills considered separately and at random, does not mean that the movie itself is out of order, separate or random.”

    I feel I’ve been close to grasping this concept. Consciousness in the body is experienced as flowing one way and in that experience time is measurable or at least experienced. Therefore time has value to the experience of life. Time’s a record keeper. Consciousness out of body expands, and time is timeless — there is no time. Yet, every moment of time exists in consciousness and is accessible by consciousness in body. It’s not accessible by consciousness out of body because it’s consciousness. Everything is consciousness. It doesn’t have to access itself.

    Consciousness in body, mind and spirit can experience and re-experience time — a memory, a past life, another spirit, the past, present and future. But, there seems to be a filter to prevent that. Reality is the experience of life and time, a lifetime, and lifetimes.

    Me: What’s created reality?
    Spirit: The sum of experiences of past and all lifetimes.
    Me: What created the reality of the first lifetime?
    Spirit: That’s the right question.

    Frank, this sometimes drives me crazy. I heard, “we did,” behind my guide’s, that’s the right question.
    Who are you?
    “You know who we are.” (we?)
    You’re going to say you’re me.
    “Why do you reject this? Why can’t you be the creator and created? The answer and question?”
    That’s a big leap and I feel like I’ve misheard and I’m talking to myself.
    “You’re all talking to yourselves.”

    I lost the connection. I used to believe I wasn’t a God guy. I felt we created God and not the other way, but when I speak to Jesus he describes being guided by a voice beyond spirit. I’m hearing that voice this year. Previously, I had glimpses of that. I’m not saying I’m talking to God, but it’s the same voice Jesus chatted to.

    Considering Jesus chats to me as a regular guy and not ‘Jesus’, I’m curious about where this is leading. I don’t know if any of this makes sense, but I’m sharing it here because your conversations with Rita is bringing this forward.

    1. I am glad you ARE sharing it, and no doubt others are too, though i could wish you have a more permanent, or more prominent, forum to share it in.
      i think the underlying problem with explanations is that we always start off with tacit or half-conscious (or dogmatic, or tentative) definitions. The definitions are never right — how could they be? How could we ever come to complete and non-misleading definitions? So then when we ask a leading question, we get either answers that have to pretend to agree with our definitions, just so something at all can be said, or we get quarrels with our definitions, to try to get us on the right path, or we get what seem like paradoxical or illogical or whimsical comments which leave us shaking our heads. i told my friend Charles, we’re like fish at the bottom of the sea trying to imagine a man on the top of a hill watching television: There are so many layers of translation needed between us and reality, we’re lucky to get a glimpse, and we’re lucky to understand a sliver of what we do glimpse. But, what do we have going on? 🙂

      1. I agree with your observations completely, Frank! And I have to wonder why, including those mystics, shamans and mediums whose insights can still be clouded by dogma and misunderstanding, people still have very little clue about the nature of reality or what our lives are really supposed to be about. Why do we see the knots and not the net?

        If there’s no difference between Here and There, why does it feel like a real wall of separation? Even to those of us who know it’s not? You get 10 pages from Rita and then “hang up the phone”, which implies separation.

        Even you and Simon, who have more access to non-3-D — or even Jane Roberts — still have more questions than could be answered, clearly, without distortion, in decades of our time.

        Is it the nature of the era we’re living in that “we” decided to “go it alone” and pretend that physical life is all there is? Wouldn’t our lives be more productive and fulfilled — with less fear! — if we came into our lives with greater access to our greater selves and why isn’t that a natural condition of our lives — as natural, say, as the ability to heal from sickness? So we wouldn’t have to play “20 questions” with ghosts? What holds us back? (Behold, I stand at the door and knock: anybody home?)

        1. Well, you ask interesting questions, and I would be skeptical of anyone who claimed to know all the answers. But I can tell you how it seems to me.
          I think our physical consciousness-machines (i.e. the brain as opposed to the mind) can hold only so much at a time. If i were to keep the line open to Rita all the time, I would have that much less attention for anything else, even if the physical strain were not a factor. But if we can’t keep a continually open line, we CAN function as time-sharing terminals. (“Dumb” terminals, no doubt!) From our point of view, access whenever we want it. From the other side’s point of view (hard to avoid using old terminology like “other side”), intermittent communication that need not interfere with whatever else they’re doing.

          You ask, “Wouldn’t our lives be more productive and fulfilled — with less fear! — if we came into our lives with greater access to our greater selves and why isn’t that a natural condition of our lives — as natural, say, as the ability to heal from sickness? So we wouldn’t have to play “20 questions” with ghosts?”
          I suspect the answer is as simple as, “one size does NOT fit all.” Some want it, some don’t, some are afraid of it, some would be crippled by it, some love it and want more of it. Dealer’s choice. How many cards would you like?

          1. I got that as soon as I hit send. No, I’m not happy with some of the cards I’ve been dealt, even though they’re pretty good First World cards. The card I want is the card that says “feels supported by the greater energies of my ‘net'”, and the “understands the conditions, meaning and purpose of my life” card.

          2. Yes, that’s probably true if you know how to discard them. I was thinking about the students in Jane Roberts’ ESP classes, as described in Sue Watkins’ books. Seth would tell someone that X condition was the result of X limiting belief or erroneous underlying assumption. I’d love to have that kind of inner voice to illuminate my blind spots.

          3. What in the world makes you think you don’t? Everything in our lives is telling us loud and clear, if we’re willing to listen. But if we were willing to listen, would they be blind spots? So the first step is the decision to listen. (The second step is harder; it involves willingness to die to the old and embrace the new.)

    2. Dear John, (dear John), and Frank and all. (and very much thank you John for telling).

      Here comes a story from back in 1980.
      I was living in a small village with my family (my husband and three teenage sons). We came in close contact with many people and became friends with them all. Beautiful environments and people there. A happy place to live.

      Everybody about us to be ordinary and friendly folks (and very common), as anybody can be (back then). To live a protected ordinary life.
      ONE DAY a colleague of my husband (and one of our neighbors) was said to have become seriously ill and sent away for the treatment at a hospital. It was never told WHAT had happened to him (the colleague) when one asked about what sort of “sickness” he was sent away to have “the treatment” for? Nobody knew what caused it, it was kept “as a secret.”

      Well, to make it short, and on to the point: After a year the neighbor and colleague came back home to the village, and shortly afterwards he came for a visit to our house (he was divorced then).
      AND then of course, to ask him what sort of sickness he became “treated” for at the hospital?
      Freely (of him) looking at me, and told:
      “One Day I woke up early in the morning and FELT all different, I had met JESUS that night”. (He was never into any religion at all on forehand, and never afterwards neither).
      And further TOLD me:”I was told of BEING HIM (Jesus), of us never being separated, and never has been separated. He underlined the feeling in not “becoming” Jesus, but already being Jesus as the whole entity of him).
      And as our friend continued in telling me: “To see ALL peoples in the whole world as Jesus, whatever names they have given themselves….whether it is Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, Quakers, Scientists, Critics, Believers, Aborginals, Indians, Shamans, Military persons, Journalists, Spiritualists, etc. etc.
      BTW: Okay,our dear friend was put into a mental hospital when telling his wife and family how he FELT “the presence” of Jesus visited him that particular night and day. He said it was FELT as “Oneness with all” when it happened… and he wanted to share it with everybody.

      At the mental hospital the doctors and nurses tried everything to convince him that what happened to him was not true but mental disturbances.
      He spoke about it in a humorous way as to recall it… we were laughing if I recall. (I have been discussing it with the friend of mine who also was there together with us at my home back then).

      Back then I felt sorry for him, but did NOT understood properly what he told to have experienced !
      He is not “in the land of living” anymore (he is in Spirit)….BUT because of what John told here, I came to Recall the whole “thing”.

      Another thought came to mind: What about Helen Schucman and ACIM, and Edgar Cayce, and Paramahansa Yogananda?

      Now I wonder if “The Higher Self” and/or, “The Whole Entity”… whether it is the whole Entity of Seth`s or Rita`s or anybody else`s` “whole Self” will be one and the same whatever “names” we give “It”?

      Diving deeper and deeper into the bottom of the ocean….Smiles, Inger Lise.
      P.S.The Housework will be very much “down-to earth” grounding, no doubt.

      1. Another reminder of how one person (John, in this case) sharing experience can lead to others remembering things in turn.
        People sometimes romanticize the good old days of the 1950s; they forget how much freer we are intellectually than we were then, regardless what has happened to our political systems and societies.

        1. Thank you John, and the same to you.

          Do you know what? This blog of Frank`s will be unique–in the way Frank (and Rita`s, as well as all the others) have The unique Gift in LISTENING to each of us (and even REPLYING to it all, with the many comments and questions) — It is a unique “give-and-take” connection between all of us and it is without any “judgement.”

          How shall I put it properly?– YES, the feeling that somebody CARES — of never being “alone,”or “left alone.”

          B&B,Inger Lise.
          P.S. I have received the book by Dolores Cannon, the third book titled “The Convoluted Universe.” (I have never read any other books by her though.) BUT, after having read the Introduction and the two first chapters of the book, what Dolores Cannon is telling FEELS “right”….in the same way as the books of Franks`does.

          As Rita says (in the tenth session, 12-12-2014, if I recall?): “Something new–or perhaps I should say the newness within the familiar–is never really understood all at once. It is more a process of ripening with time.”

          (well, “time” may be the mirror “in to dream the world unto “being,” I guess.)

          1. Inger Lise, I appreciate your reminders that this material has been valuable to you. When I was a book publisher, I had a chance to publish Dolores Cannon and didn’t take it. A missed opportunity….

      2. Just a thank you to Frank, Rita & Inger Lise and all who share their thoughts and stories here. Inger Lise, your story above about your neighbor who met Jesus brought up an old memory for me. I grew up in a town called Bethel in the state of Connecticut, in the 1960s and early 1970s. There was a man in Bethel named Dante Vaghi was the uncle of a grammer school friend of mine. Dante Vaghi was known about town as a kook or an oddball because of his outspoken passion for UFOs. His name came to me out of the blue (lol) today. I had not thought about him for many, many years…. My family had moved from Bethel to New Hampshire in 1972 and I never saw Mr. Vaghi after that. So when his name popped into my head today I though wow, I wonder whatever became of him and after all these years could I find any reference to him online. So I googled him and found his obituary. He died in 2011 at the age of 89. He was referred to as “Bethel’s beloved UFO pioneer”. I thought wow how times have changed just like Frank had noted. It was reported that Dante had his first UFO sighting in 1950 and he had 14 more sightings after that. He had requested that his favorite song “Spirit in the Sky” be played at the town gazebo after he died. There was even a youtube video showing the townspeople and the unveiling of a wooden statue of Dante pointing up at the sky while a live band in the gazebo played Spirit in the Sky.

        Throughout my adult life I have had my own experiences with non-3D entities including spirit guides, angels and even a small being from the Horsehead Nebula area (near Orion’s belt). When I met this little being from Orion in a lucid dream, I chuckled as I told him he looked like a teletubby character. This little being said “don’t laugh Karla, you looked like this once too”. Also at the culmination of one of my lucid dreams years ago, I was enjoying a get-together with a group that included some of my spirit guides and there was a band playing the song “Spirit in the Sky”. So thank you all for sharing. You may never know how many you touch and how many resonate with your words. My awareness of my connections to the non-3D continues to unfold and I am more cognizant of the subtle nudges this way and that by spirit (that have always been there). I am grateful to all of you.

          1. Absolutely fantastic Karla,and thank you very much.
            I have no difficulty in relating to the story of yours, as I have experienced many strange things myself. And Teletubbies are CUTE.The fascinating story of yours gave me associations to the old Walt Disney figures and cartoons. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck etc. etc. Walt Disney gave the animals human characteristics. As a child I loved Peter Pan (the old movies about Peter Pan, Wendy and her siblings, as well as Captain Hook).
            Not to mention the scary crocodile who had swallowed an alarm-clock. And Tingeling (the little elf) spreading glimmering stardust over them and then they could FLY. The refrain of the song when they was flying away from their home in London to the Tall Ship of Peter Pan’s (up in the sky)….”You can fly, you can fly…” My favorite movie back then.

            BTW: I recall Robert Monroe once told in one of his books of experiencing being a FISH (in the consciousness of a fish, a cod or something), and to bite on ha hook by a fisherman… I`ll never eat a fish-dish again.
            BUT, if absolutely everything has a consciousness… WHAT do we have to eat then??

            Once I experienced seeing two small Elf-children. The little boy was very shy, but the little girl had a necklace of pearls around her neck,and she took it off to give me… The little elf-boy was much too shy to come near me, he stood behind the little girl only looking at us. I stretched out my hand to the little girl, but then they vanished out of sight (all of a sudden disappeared, and never got the pearl-necklace). I have never seen the two cute elfs again afterwards. Wonder if The Nature-Spirits to have “the human”-outlook, but much smaller? They were dressed in “something green.” I have tried to figure out if it could be green Leaves… the faces and figures were very much “human,”but small and tiny.Obviously there are many other parallel dimensions about us.

            B&B,Inger Lise.
            P.S. Therefore I was once upon a time) interested in reading the books by Geoffrey Hodson. He was born with the ability to see all sorts of Nature Spirits. Amazon-bookstore have Geoffrey Hodson`s` “Fairies at work and Play.”
            Everything will be alive.

          2. Inger Lise, did you ever think to try to contact the little elf-girl by means of your own guidance, and ask about the necklace? I get the feeling that her handing you the necklace was not about a physical object but a symbol — of communication, perhaps? Certainly your internal life seems to have been unusually rich. I wonder what you would get if you went asking for the meaning of the encounter.

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