Thomas, Sayings 27, 28, 29, 30

Thursday, June 6, 2019

7:25 a.m. Saying 27a and b:

27a If you do not fast from the world you will not find the Kingdom.

27b If you do not keep the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will never see the father.

Seems to me, this means, you have to have a certain detachment from the world if you are to have a chance of seeing truly, of experiencing the reality behind appearances.

You don’t need us at all.

Very funny. Anything I’m missing here?

Your insights could be expanded upon, but they capture the essence. Anyone who grasps the point can fill in the nuances.

 

Friday, June 7, 2019

10:55 a.m. Saying 28.

Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world. I came to them in the flesh [sarx]. I found all of them drunk. I found not one of them to be thirsty. My soul was saddened by the sons of men for they are mentally blind. They do not see that they have come into the world empty and they will go out of the world empty. But now they are drunk. When they sober up they will repent.

Guys?

Surely clear?

Well, I think so. Jesus found the men of the 3D drunk – that is, not sober, not seeing straight – and not thirsty; that is, not thirsting for the truth, for more life or greater awareness. He was sad to see how blind they were, they not seeing that they would leave 3D as they entered it, because they would not spend their time working on themselves. (That is interpolation, I know, but that’s how it strikes me.) And he looks forward to them overcoming their lack of awareness.

Good enough, and as you know, the division between “our” and “your” interpretation sometimes wears thin.

Yes, and I no longer suspect it when it is the case, but take is as progress.

As it is. So, saying 29, then.

And now you are saying my lines as I am yours.

29 Jesus said: If flesh [sarx] came into being because of spirit, it is wonderful. If spirit came into being because of the body, it is exceedingly wonderful. I am amazed that this great wealth has appeared in this poverty.

Very well, Saying 29 seems to me to say that Jesus is struck by what the 3D experience of restriction offers the 3D/non-3D as a whole.

Bear in mind, that is not what would seem obvious to just anyone, but that is as we see it, as well. It bears pondering, however, and each one who ponders over it will discover new facets – or, should we say, will have new facets discovered to them.

Uncovered?

Discovered is an older way of saying the same. Saying 30, then.

Jesus said: Where there are three Gods they are Gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him.

Now this one stumps me.

As well it might. What can “three Gods” mean?

No idea.

Not even the divine trinity?

Hmm. Classically, father, son, holy spirit, or Hagia Sophia, or paraclete. (Funny word, only without feathers.)

Yes, funny. Well?

All right, let’s look at it. I am aware continually of trying to extract from what I know of Christian doctrine what the originators knew experientially that was then misinterpreted over time.

And you wish you knew the doctrine better. But maybe such knowledge would only embroil you in fruitless abstract and academic discussions and polemics. Better to approach matters from your own experience, seeking similarities, then approach from doctrine, seeking to validate or invalidate by argument.

Okay. Well, let’s take God the Father to be the creator of us in 3D (and of 3D itself, perhaps; that would depend upon whether we are talking about one being or many, and I suspect that in non-3D that is less of a distinction than we might think). In any case, this is the parent of us in 3D, of our 3D selves as souls created in one time-space. Maybe we are all created out of the same stuff, maybe not, although I am confident that if you go far enough back, it must be the same. “All is one” may be (is) a New Age cliché, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

[This is poorly phrased. Transcribing this, I would say that what I meant is that I don’t know whether what we experience as God the father is our own non-3D component in its full extension (so that, in effect, there would be many God the fathers) or whether what we experience as God the father is in fact the ultimate.]

But if God the father refers to the non-3D Creator of the 3D, does God the son refer (as Christians apparently believe) only to Jesus? More likely it would be the divine as expressed within 3D conditions. At least this is how it seems to me at the moment, perhaps under the influence of our temporary joint mind.

And in any case, God the holy spirit cannot be identical in all respects with God the father. That is, it is a different aspect of the same reality. I am tempted – but not quite persuaded – to say that the holy spirit is the same as the vast impersonal forces that express through us.

Better perhaps to say that the holy spirit is the master of, or even in a sense the source of, the vast impersonal forces. In any case it is non-3D influencing the 3D but not influenced by it. It interacts with non-3D and 3D – negative, positive, and reconciling forces, a balanced system.

Does this mean that the second part of Saying 30 means that we in 3D can always experience Jesus even if we cannot experience both, or perhaps one, of the others?

We will leave that for you to ponder, as any answer would mislead. Some questions need to be re-posed – that is, posed differently – lest an answer confirm a misunderstanding.

Enough for now.

What a difference it makes when I give up giving up coffee! Thanks.

 

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