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[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Vengeance and choice

R: I’ve been listening in to people’s reaction to [the Sept. 11 event], on the issue of striking back against what’s perceived as the evil forces of Osama bin Laden. And it’s presented often in terms of “This is what we need to do to balance things out.” And I’m asking about this issue of balancing things out in a worldwide sense. You’ve talked about the fact that you see this without the slices of time. You’re looking at the totality, and in the totality everything is balanced out eventually. And the “eventually” means – ?

TGU: A long time. [laughs]

R: So I’m –

TGU: You’re asking, are they right in any sense?

R: I guess.

TGU: Well, if the world had been created the day before yesterday, maybe. But given the history of the planet in any given reality you choose to investigate, once you look at it carefully – even consciously at all! – it becomes obvious there’s no way to balance it out, because every society on the face of your planet is the result of some past aggression somewhere. Everyone has or could have grievances. Everyone wants to get one last blow in and that’ll make them even.

But the people who are saying that aren’t very good at mathematics. The entire point of breaking the cycle of vengeance is that the cycle cannot be completed; it can only be broken. It can’t be completed because every new retaliation creates the seeds of new retaliation in the future, because it can never balance out. It’s foolish talk. Besides, that’s not what they mean. What they mean is, they don’t want to feel that they have been weak, that they have been taken advantage of. That’s all that really amounts to.

R: We talked about our being a certain way as a way of dealing with this kind of thing. Is there more that we could do? For example you said one of the factors in understanding this process is people’s inability to see or integrate their own shadow sides. It’s hard for me to think about how we would go out on a campaign of teaching people to see their shadow sides or to integrate their shadow sides. [chuckles] Is there something in that kind of a realm that we could be doing?

TGU: Well, each will be impelled to do the work that’s proper to each. You will know; you’ll meet the opportunities that come to you. And some people will be called upon to teach, and some to organize and some to stand silently and protest, and some to fly warplanes. There are millions of roles and everyone will know the role that’s there that’s available to them. However – [pause]

Frank: That’s funny, that doesn’t happen often. I know there was something else coming, but it just went away. Wait a minute. [pause] Hmm. I’m going to re-say what they were saying and then maybe it’ll come out again. It just disappeared. I know what they were saying was everybody will have their own thing to do – and that’s obvious. Well, there was another point that wasn’t like that, but…What was the other part of your question?

R: The question had to do with, is there something more that we can do besides try to be the best of ourselves, so to speak. Is there something we can do in this world where everyone is worried about –

Frank: Oh now I know what it was. The other thing that came was that, yes there is a campaign to have people recognize their shadow selves, and that campaign is being orchestrated on their side, not on our side. [laughs] That’s what they’re saying.

R: Okay.

[Resuming as TGU]: The impact of events is a bigger teacher to you than anything that one of you could say to another, and so you are a different country today than you were last month. The difference has been created by your reaction to the events. We can create the events and we can lead you toward – but it’s up to you to choose the lessons to be learned from events, and the ways to change from the events. Because the airplanes hit the buildings, there are people who are a little more chastened and a little more self-reflective and sober today than they were before. There are others who are totally lost in rage, and there are some who are lost in fear. You see? Millions of reactions. And you needn’t worry too much about that, we will provide the opportunities. You can each spread the word, first and foremost by living it, because you’ll spread it on the internal internet, so to speak. First and foremost by living it. There are many people preaching it and if some of them would do less preaching and more living of it, they would be more effective.

But having said that, there are specific things that some of you can do, and you’ll know it. And there are specific things all of you can do and you’ll know it, but some of those may not be external things. They may seemingly be tending your garden in peace, so to speak.

R: What did you mean by a campaign on the other side to orchestrate –

TGU: Well, we’re orchestrating the opportunities, you know.

R: Specifically having to do with people becoming aware of their shadow side?

TGU: Specifically creating situations that allow the opportunity for some people to wake up in response to the situation. So when we create what you are all fond of calling a disaster, it has impact around the world in the unpredictable way that Princess Diana’s sudden death had, or the killing of the Kennedys. Those orchestrated incidents, shall we say – and we remind you that those who participated in those incidents were volunteers – those orchestrated incidents couldn’t have specific effects because the specific effects are more the result of people’s conscious choices, which are free by design. But they set up the circumstances in which people could make the choices. It sort of stressed them toward it, it biased the –

Frank: It’s a visual of pushing on a screen, you know, to push it sideways. I don’t know how to translate that.

TGU: Your choices are always free, as individuals and therefore entirely. All that we can do is set up circumstances and give you opportunities, and it’s up to you to take them. And when you take them or don’t take them, then we scramble with Plan B, you know? [chuckles] We’re always on Plan B.

R: Well as I’m hearing this, I’m wondering, what’s the advantage to free will.

TGU: Because free will is what allows you to create. Free will gives you the opportunity to choose what you will be, what kind of flower you’re going to present to us.

R: But you’re doing so much of the creation on the other side –

TGU: We’re creating the matrix for the free will. [stutters several times]

You’re saying to yourself, “That isn’t quite fair, we have free will but you’re pushing us in certain directions,” and that’s true if you look at it in any one reality. But you need to remember, if you can, that it’s happening in all realities, and you can move to the reality you want to move to. [pause] Well, theoretically.

R: But it seems like since you have preferences about how we choose and how we move, that you’re creating the situations… What is this process all about?

TGU: Let’s make a theoretical example. Supposing you as an organism came into this world intending to get a little experience with selfishness. Both the satisfying of it and the overcoming of it. We and you – but you will no longer remember, because you’re down here in it – we and you set up an endless series of obstacle courses that present you with those situations in which you will choose about selfishness. And choose and choose and choose and choose and choose. Now your choices might cancel out! Or they might radically alter you, or they might leave you the way you were. Don’t forget, you’re in on this process, it isn’t us doing it to you except that in any moment of time, it’s us doing it to you because you’re functioning in the moment of time, and so we’re the ones holding the score, so to speak, or holding the –

R: A plan that we’ve agreed to.

TGU: But you know what? “We’ve agreed to” isn’t quite right, it’s “We are agreeing to” continually, because you’re continually up there with us as we’re modifying into Plan B. But you Downstairs – some of you do and some of you don’t connect Upstairs to be part of that planning. There are actually people who remember the planning, moment by moment. And you could too. It’s a matter of requesting access and getting it. You might find that an interesting process. Takes a lot of the blame away, though. [laughs]

R: I’m just really asking myself “how’d we start on this process anyway, and in the larger sense what is this all about?” Why are we doing this?

TGU: We remind you that you don’t like being bored.

R: Oh. [they laugh]

TGU: You are seeing calculus that was invented because people mastered the times tables. And as we master calculus, then we’ll move on to other games. They’re not meaningless games, but they are games. They’re games in the sense of stretching our abilities, of enjoying it, of playing it, you know. They’re not games in the sense of one wins and one loses, but they’re entertainment. They’re engaging, let’s put it that way. Remember that the next time you get bad news on the television set, it’s better than being bored. [they laugh]

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Stagnation

R: Before we started this process, I felt nothing was happening. I assume on principle that what looked like a delay to me had some purpose. But, you know, it’s a big step for me not to feel like there is something we should do to push, rather than just to sit back and say “Well, things come about in their proper time,” you see.

TGU: When things appear to be not moving, sometimes it’s a process of settling in, sometimes it’s a process of preparation. Sometimes it’s a necessary rest, sometimes it’s stopped here because you’re working elsewhere. Sometimes it’s waiting for external circumstances to come around. And sometimes, of course, it is that you are refusing to do what you know you should be doing. But those are all very different circumstances, all of which may look the same.

When things seem like they’re dead still in the water, you can always find out whether things are stagnant or whether they’re fallow. Examine your feelings. Is there something that you know you should do that you don’t want to do and you’re not doing?

We don’t mean this in the sense of “I should be a better person, I should be more helpful”; those are just beating yourself up. But if you’re saying, “This job has to be done, I know I have to do it, but I don’t want to” – that’s not necessarily wrong either, but examine your feelings about that. If you’re shirking something that you legitimately should do, you’ll know it. And if at the same time things feel stagnant, there may be a connection!

Now, your comments brought up two things to talk about, and that was one. The second is, it’s a common mistake to confuse doing nothing externally with doing nothing. A monk in a monastery who is not even speaking to his fellows, who is sincerely and intelligently striving for whatever his own goals are – he would call it, probably, getting closer to God, but you might call it self-development – whatever the goal, someone who is sincerely striving, is not doing nothing.

It may look from the outside that they’re not doing anything productive, or that they’re even shirking their job. But we would say, if you’re shirking your job, you always know it. We would also say, there’s an awful lot of wasted energy going on because people think they must “do something.” But you never have to “do something.” If there’s something you really have to do, you know what it is, you don’t call it “something.” You see? [laughs] So beware of people who say that “We need to do something.”

R: Yes. Well there’s sometimes a sense also of feeling impatient that things aren’t happening, as you suggested, and not knowing what it is that one’s supposed to be doing.

TGU: You always have that knowledge available. Just sit quietly and meditate and ask sincerely. You may not get, “You should go do this,” but in the absence of “You should go do this” you’ll know “No, no, this is fine, what I’m doing.” You see? Waiting sometimes is what you need to do. And while you’re waiting on one level, you’re working on another. [pause] What would you like to do?

R: I would like to do what I’m doing now, but I felt there was a period of time when I was describing myself as spiritually stuck.

TGU: Ah! Well, then we suggest that for your own amusement, or for your own reassurance, go back and look and ask yourself, “What would be different had this happened before that period?” and that will, by reflection, tell you what you got out of that period. And the answer may be, “Well, I had to wait for the time to be right.” Or the answer may be, “I had my attention focused in the wrong place and that delayed it.” But the answer very well may be, “Because of this I’ve been changed to this,” you see. We’re not predicting what the answer will be, but we say it’s a good exercise.

R: Well there’s some sense where you feel that something came so close to not happening, and you feel so pleased that it happened, but it might not have happened!

TGU: There are innumerable realities in which it did not. But you chose the one in which it did. Your choice.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Secret Schools

R: You know, there are some specific places in the world where some things are happening, like the Monroe Institute training process and other similar things, where people are getting some direction in this process, but it seems as though most of the world isn’t there, so are we talking about building little islands here that will somehow spread?

TGU: There are always secret schools, and secret schools may not even know that they are secret schools. They may have their attention firmly placed on something else, but of course from the other side we can direct the opportunities and we can suggest to people the lessons to be learned from things. You know the parable of the leavening of the loaf. It takes only a tiny bit to leaven a huge loaf. If the leaven were absent, the bread would not rise. If it were all leaven, it wouldn’t be bread. If all the leaven were in one place, it wouldn’t rise evenly. It’s a matter of proper proportions in the proper place.

You are a member of one secret school, although it may not know that it’s a secret school – some do and some don’t, depending on their perception – and this secret school is being supported from our side in order to provide a cadre of people with improved access to certainty, so that they may be anchors of stability to those around them. But there is no necessity to have 13,425 Monroe Institutes around the world. There’s no necessity to have that same number of Trappist monasteries throughout the world. Or Buddhist monasteries, or Islamic study centers, or synagogues. You see? Secret schools are secret for one reason – because they’re right out in the open. That’s the only way to keep a secret. They’re secret because people can’t see what’s in front of them.

And in a secret school – we’re using that word meaning a school that teaches secrets – it is not necessary that the people in that school, on a Downstairs level, understand what they’re doing. It is only necessary that they change. So their Upstairs component is leading them gently to do this, that and the other, and some are good Catholics and some are good Muslims, and there are innumerable members of secret schools who consider themselves to be atheists. It doesn’t matter to us! And in fact, it is an old law of nature that safety is found in diversity. So, if you need your secret schools to continue and to be invulnerable to the vagaries of history, scatter them out in 50 million different ways. Make them look nothing like each other.

R: And some will survive.

TGU: More than some. And it’s not so much a question of surviving, that’s a little too grim. It’s more a question of, some will have greater influence than others.

You’re not in a situation where it’s beginning to rain and there’s only one ark.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

The Record and the Needle

R: We’ve heard the term Akashic records. Does that term mean to you the total knowledge that’s available to you to tap into?

TGU: Well, it’s not a library building, the way some people like to think of it, and, you know, it’s not a computer terminal, but it is there, objectively written (so to speak) in the fabric of time-space, and you probably will stump us if you ask how we read it, we just – read it. But if we were to ask you, How do you remember last Thursday, could you answer? You don’t know, you just do. It’s such an automatic mechanism, it would be very difficult to trace out. The Akashic record is not separate from time-space, it is time-space. It’s the same thing. So if you’re looking at it, there it is. But how we get to looking at it – we do it by intent, same as when you talk, and as when we talk. Just as it is your intent that points this conversation. [pause] Have we confused you?

R: I am following that, and I’m thinking about it and making sure that I understand what you were saying. You were saying that you from your perspective have the advantage in that you’re seeing it all at once, and the totality of it –

TGU: Well we didn’t quite phrase it as an advantage; it’s just a circumstance. There are advantages to being quite pointed in time-space, and disadvantages, and obviously, the other way around. Our disadvantage is a somewhat diffused consciousness. It’s an advantage, it’s a disadvantage. It depends on how you look at it. We would not at all say it’s an absolute advantage over you; it’s an advantage in certain ways. We have an advantage not so much in perspective as in totality of access. You can provide the needle to play the record, we can provide the record to be played by the needle.

R: I like that. When I interpreted you to have said that you understood more, you asked us to get back to you on that. That didn’t seem to be quite the way to put it. You were using an analogy of a child and an adult.

TGU: Our meaning would be that a child sees probably more clearly because it’s more clearly focused: It’s absolutely right at the moment. But what it sees it may interpret badly for lack of context. This is the only way in which we would make the analogy between us on this side and us on – you on your side. It is like a parent-child relationship, in that respect strictly, not in any other way.

But our perspective is tempered by our experience, and the experience is relatively vast because we have vastly expanded access. Your awareness is perhaps more acute than ours, because where we see somewhat fuzzily because our consciousness is less intense, you see sharply as anything, and your struggle is to be able to provide a proper interpretation to what you see so clearly.

[pause] We do want to stress, that’s the only aspect of the parent-child analogy that applies. We’re not saying that you were created from us or anything on that order. [pause] Although, that would be another metaphor, actually, [chuckles] but we don’t want to muddy those waters.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

How TGU Access Knowledge

R: I have understood from you Gentlemen Upstairs that you have a great deal of information – maybe almost all of the information – and that our job is to suggest a focus for identifying the information by asking questions.

TGU: You will have to pardon us if we always answer literally what you say, because we’re so aware of slippage in communications. We would say we have access to knowledge and probably have access to further knowledge when you want it. We’re trying to emphasize, we don’t ourselves know, but we can find out.

R: Okay, well, one question that arises for me is, how does all this information become available to you?

TGU: [pause] To us the process is more or less what it is to you when you’re thinking about something without needing external resources like books or conversation. It’s as though we’re ruminating, only we’re kind of gravitating toward the information.

R: So it isn’t as though the information has to be collected.

TGU: Well that’s how the information is collected. It’s the same way that you do when you associate ideas, or when you hook a fantasy to a dream to an idea to a thought to something you’ve read. It could be looked at that you’re collecting information. It’s really a very similar process.

R: And then does the information get organized in some way?

TGU: It does if you organize it. You organize it.

R: But you don’t have the sense of speaking out of organized files, so to speak.

TGU: Well – we speak out of the knowledge in the same way that you speak out of the knowledge when you talk and don’t censor in advance what you’re saying. It’s really about the same thing. You’ve heard us begin to say something, stop, go at it again from another way to organize the same material that will lead to a slightly different nuance. You all do the same things when you speak – or even when you think, but it’s more obvious when you speak.

R: You started out last time, in response to my question about evil, by saying there are three different ways to look at this material, something like that. That’s what I was meaning by the organization of the material in some way.

TGU: Ah. Well, wait, let’s look at the process. This isn’t something we had to go fetch, so to speak, and therefore you could look at it like these are organized thoughts in the way that you have organized thoughts when you discuss a subject you’ve thought about before. You know how the first time you try to explain something, you make a jumble of it, and by the third or fourth time you try to explain the same thing it has organized itself, seemingly spontaneously? The same with us. When you ask us something on which we are pretty firm, we can say, “Well, it’s this, this, this, and this. And we’ll talk about this first and then this and then this.”

We keep coming back to the fact that it’s almost too simple to get across to you that you and we are the same thing, with more or less the same ways of being, and the main difference is the time-space matrix that you function in and we do not. So, any time that you’re wondering how we operate, start with the assumption that it’s the same way that you operate, and then see that if you can intuit how that would be without the time-space constraint. You may not get it right, but it’ll be very productive. And – as Frank’s very fond of saying – it’ll have the meta-purpose of accustoming you to thinking at a deeper level about how similar we and you are, how it isn’t “them and us” it’s just us. [pause] And you have to realize, that was a short answer, for us.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Emotion as gradient

R: This is another question that came up around the disaster questions last week. [Sept 11, 2001] You had said that our 3D Disasters had some impact on you. I wondered if you could talk some more about that. Here we are experiencing fear, other emotions, questions about how to behave, how to feel and so on. What happens for you?

TGU: It’s almost too simple to be able to get across to you. What happens to you is what happens to us, with the caveat that it’s what happens to all of you, including trees, rocks, oceans, and air, all of which are sentient, as you suspect. What you feel is what we feel, but you only feel it one tentacle at a time, and we feel the whole octopus.

R: But without the emotional impact. Or is it the totality of the emotional impact also?

TGU: [sigh] Well, that requires – have you guessed? – another lecture.

What you experience as emotions are gradients. This is difficult, because Frank doesn’t have this language, really. Let’s move back up a little bit.

You know what a gradient does; a gradient takes something from one state to another. The slope of a hill could be considered to be a gradient between a high place and a low place. It connects them and at the same time its own nature describes how they connect. If you have a total discontinuity – a mesa, say, out west – that rises straight out of the surroundings, the gradient is radically different from the gradient in a gentle prairie that might still gain a thousand feet, but take a thousand miles do it.

Well, your emotions are gradients between what happens and what you would prefer to happen. This is very crude and it’s not exactly right, but it’s an entry into the subject.

We don’t have emotions in the way that you do because we don’t have the preferred option in the same way you do. We are trying to steer things in certain directions, and hoping that you all make certain choices, but we ourselves don’t identify with any one of you in the way that any one of you has to identify with yourself. You as an individual may become aware of your other lives and your other dimensions and expand the size of the part that you identify with, but while you’re in the body you’re only identifying with one part of the whole.

You will remember that we say that your purpose on earth in physical matter reality is to choose and choose and choose and to create yourselves, and that the creation of yourself is the gift. Well, it isn’t only after you come back as part of us. It’s a gift while you’re doing it. Now this is an analogy, but just as we taste cherry pie when you eat cherry pie, so we can experience the emotion of hatred and fear when you experience the emotion of hatred and fear. With the major exception – which invalidates the analogy – that we don’t experience things in one slice of time after another, and we don’t experience things in one slice of individuality, so-called, after another.

So the way we experience it is so different from the way you experience it, that until people make more of an effort to understand the difference in terrain, they’ll never understand that both sides are doing the same thing at the same time. If you have a life largely lived in fear, you will still experience that life moment by moment by moment. If we are experiencing that life largely lived in fear, we’ll experience the fear more as a color or a tint or a flavor or a shade, tingeing the whole thing, rather than one specific moment at a time. Now, that doesn’t mean we don’t see a moment. We’re here, with you, in this moment. But it means that what’s fluid for us seems solid to you; what’s fluid for you seems solid to us. As an example, your whole life looks to us as one unit, and we have to sort of focus carefully to get you at any moment in time.

Keeping all that in mind if you can – it’ll be easier when you read it – your emotions are a gradient between what is and what you want. Now, you could also say, it’s a gradient between what happens to you and what your previous experience has led you to think would happen to you. We’re not going to get very far here without examples, so give us an example that occurs to you of a strong emotion.

R: Well, there are people right now getting onto airplanes in a state of terror. They have to go someplace and yet they’re very fearful about that.

TGU: What is it we want to look at about the emotion?

R: My original question was, what are you experiencing on your side, when we’re seeing a disaster in terms of these strong emotions?

TGU: Well, the person boards the airplane in a state of advanced fear. The person next to them boards the airplane without fear, because they live in a different reality. They have a different belief system. You experience the moment as the overriding thing, because you live moment by moment, or rather, you live in the continuing now. But we experience the overall lengthwise flavor of it. So we see that person being brought to an opportunity-point of dealing with an ingrained pattern of fear that maybe until then has been unsuspected or has been dealt with casually. So that where you look at it as “how they feel right now,” we look at it as, “what opportunities does this give them to choose?” That’s really the way we look at it. Thus, we can be made to look very cold-blooded, to you. We assure you that we’re not.

R: It doesn’t sound that way when you explain it.

TGU: [lightly] We have good lawyers.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Sept. 11, 2001 (3)

R: Would the events that happened in our time and space today change the energy at your level in some ways?

TGU: Well, you know, we’re not surprised by any of this. We know what’s going on that hasn’t happened in your area yet. We know converging probabilities are practically certainties. So, how should it change our energies?

R: Well, I’m saying that there may be on the earth level lots of demand for your attention today.

TGU: But, you know, how many people died? When you have 15 or 20 or 30 billion at a time, then you might start taxing our facilities, but – you know how many ex-people there are? World War II didn’t tax us, this isn’t going to tax us, in terms of a drain on our attention, if that’s what you mean.

R: This would be a small event, compared to the kinds of events in your –

TGU: In a way, you could kill everyone on the planet on the same day, and – the mission of the planet off to the side, just considering that number of people –if we had to, we’d react to it.

R: Well, all the suggestions you made tonight about the future on our planet sound very grim.

TGU: You knew them a long time ago.

R: Well, I haven’t known them. I have really been an optimist. And when the question has been, “Are we going to end with being blown up by atomic bombs, or are the earth changes going to wipe us out,” I haven’t come down on the side of either of those. But it sounds like you’re saying I’m wrong about that.

TGU: We didn’t mention either of those things. [stops, starts and sputters]

R: Well I was using that as an example of the kinds of questions that had to do with how it all ends.

TGU: Well it doesn’t all end. [They laugh] It always goes on. It’s curious to us, how while you’re in bodies it seems to you that anything that takes people out of bodies is not an optimistic end, given that you’re all going to come out of the body anyway, and if you didn’t you’d be stuck. You are going to have extensive disruptions, but your whole lives have been extensive disruptions and you’ve lived them fruitfully and with purpose. Looking back on them, one might say, “Oh my God, it’s been one damn thing after another,” and in a way that’s true. But in another way it’s, “Wow, it’s been the removal of one chain after another.” And in a way that’s true.

If your systems were currently functioning in an optimal or even a sustainable way, then disruptions to the systems would be bad in the sense that you would find it not only uncomfortable but retrogressive. But your systems aren’t sustainable, and most of them aren’t even humane. And disruptions of those systems we cannot see as anything other than a way forward, not backward.

R: By systems you’re talking about social institutions and ways of defining our livelihoods.

TGU: Indirectly, yes. Primarily, we mean the way people are defining themselves, what they think they are. What they think the rules of life are. What they think the purpose or purposes of life are. All of that is very dysfunctional, although – within the overall context, anything that happens is a flower, as we’ve said. But we prefer other flowers, and to see this one destroyed…Well, we’ll ask you a rhetorical question. Would you rather see your civilization destroyed, or the earth? Not that that’s the real choice. But you see what we’re saying. There are times when something being destroyed is not only the lesser of two evils, but in fact is not an evil at all.

—

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.