[continued from previous post]
R: All right, I think I understand that. It seemed though that the guys, as representing a different level than you as an individual, seemed to see things from a different perspective than you do, and they’re trying to teach us on this level to understand their perspective, but we don’t in fact see without the time and space dimensions. So I’m wondering that about another level. Whether there is talent there that we can understand that would be different from the first two layers here.
F: Well, the only thing that comes to mind right away on that, it is that in fact it isn’t an “us” and a “you,” and it isn’t a “they” and an “us,” it’s all one thing and these distinctions that we go along with making, still you have to remember they’re not real distinctions. It isn’t Frank on one end, the guys on the other end, even though it’s convenient to look at it that way. It really is that you are seeing a part of a being and in trying to understand what you’re seeing, you’re dissecting the parts, and that’s true as far as it goes, but don’t lose sight of the fact that the parts are parts of one thing, and this goes all the way up and all the way down. We know you know that, but we need to continually reemphasize it, because your spatial analogies — which we really don’t think you’ll ever be able to get out of while you’re in the body — by their very nature separate things into here and there. And your time analogies separate into now and then and when. But the separation is not real, it’s just convenient.
We understand your question. Is there a difference beyond us as noticeable as the difference beyond us in your dimension where everything is compressed into matter? But we have to say, one world a time.
R: OK, we’re ready to release that for now unless you have something else to say about that.
F: No, just that you can think of it as, if you would magnify pictures of the ganglia of the brain, and think of that as a miniature picture of the way reality is, and don’t look at it logically but look at it as a picture — in other words don’t analyze it by logical but analyze it by your spatial appreciation — it’ll give you some sense of the holographic nature of things. It may, anyway.
R: All right, I can get the image okay. So I’ll think about that. I would like to ask the guys today whether they have a message for the Institute. What’s the most important information that you could give to the Institute at this point in time?
F: Well, as Frank’s friend Kelly says, you hear very well. [Laughs.] The message to the Institute is very simple, and that is that “your time is now.” Everything that you’ve done to now is only the preparation. It’s been good preparation, but it’s only the preparation. Now you are able to, and it will be in your interest to, spread the magical technology throughout the world to various other seed centers.
You might look at yourselves as monasteries at the decline of the Roman Empire, where each little monastic enclave saved a little piece, you know. And they didn’t necessarily coordinate with each other, and they didn’t necessarily know that they were doing that, cosmically. What they were doing was, looking at “we will live this way. We will preserve these values. We will do this.”
Well, you can do the same things now, and the people are now open to this. It means, not encouraging a million people to come and do programs at the Institute: just the opposite. It means encouraging the development of other institutes at convenient locations throughout the world, particularly throughout the English speaking world. No one asked us, but we would advocate that this be more like a friendly confederation than any formal control or formal articulation of structures.
[Seven second interruption in tape]
— and go on from there. There’d be something in it for the people are setting it up, and there would still only be one original Institute. A very big opportunity. It’s what you really came for, it’s what you set up for. And the time is now.
R: This seems like an issue at the organizational level that would require the Institute to give up some of the controls they have tried to impose on people who are teaching this kind of material.
F: Well, what the Institute was set up for from our point of view, and what it was set up for from its own point of view, may not look the same .
R: Okay, do you have any kind of suggestions about the programs that the Institute offers?
F: Rather than answer that question, we’ll say that Laurie and Skip and others traveling the land as prophets is a good thing. That’s what will spread the word in time. And that’s what will, on the one hand, defuse a lot of potential opposition, on the second hand create people with a willingness …
[Change side of tape]
— and on the third hand, so to speak, insure that people will still want to come to the original. In other words, it won’t damage their financial or economic position.
As to the programs, they don’t need advice on their programs. The only thing that we would say is to have the people sit in a circle during the debriefing, not in rows. It’s a seemingly tiny little thing, but it is reducing feedback, it’s damping the energy too much. If they would sit in circles and actually be able to see each other more, the energy would ramp up and much more important and productive interactions would take place, many of them nonverbal, but it wouldn’t matter, they would still add. Tiny thing, but important.
R: All right. Interesting. How about in the research area? Do you have any specific suggestions there?
F: Well, in that you have thousands of people going through these programs, there is your research base, and if you remember, that’s how it was initially —
[eight second interruption in tape] – work – We’ll start another sentence.
What you might do, if you wished, would be to extend the program to Friday afternoon. And everything from the breakfast morning on to whenever they broke up on Friday afternoon, maybe say 3:00, would be devoted specifically to people expressing what had happened to them that may not have gotten expressed in debriefing circles, or may have, with the idea of it being recorded by the Institute, for being noted and looked at.
That’s not the kind of research you had in mind, we think, but actually that kind of experiential reporting is more persuasive to the people who will come than a statistical correlation would be. The statistical correlation would have scientific validity, but it doesn’t have the emotional warmth, whereas a testimony will have the warmth, and will attract the people who already — you know, after all, they’re going to be prodded from the other side, too. But that might be the last thing they need, and then it will help them to decide to come. Just as Frank’s book does that. His book has no statistics and correlations at all, it just says “this is how it changed my life.” And people have read the book and said, “I hope that something like this can happen, I’m willing to take the chance.” In other words, it acts not so much on a rational basis as on a rational and emotional basis.
That kind of thing can be gathered at a final session in which the participants are told that in fact it is for that kind of purpose. And some very interesting correlations could come. If you had 14 programs talk about their initial experience in focus 12, say — in the context of stories that they were telling — when someone gathered them all up, the cumulative effect could be very persuasive to people. And very exciting, too. Small thing, but it could be done.
R: Thank you for that.
F: Besides, it also then bonds the participants even more to the Institute, even more than their experiences already have. Because now they’ve given, and people like to give.
R: That’s true. [Pause.] I have one more question that I wanted to ask, and that is, what’s the most important information to come through for Frank right now?
F: [Pause.] Well, you know he’s having his difficulties, and we would just say — the same reason that he was reading the Churchill book, we would say that it’s just important not to give up, and not to give in to the luxury of despair, you know. Despair just means, “well I don’t feel like doing this anymore,” whereas some hope is an attribute of courage or, or it’s a concomitant. And it’s just important that he not give up. He knows it, but it doesn’t hurt to hear it.
R: [pause] That’s very good. Thank you for that.
F: And for you?
R: You have some information for me?
F: Do you have a question? For you?
R: Well I can ask the same question for me, is there some information that’s important for me to hear right now?
F: [Pause.] You’re getting that information all the time, just don’t close off from it. Not that you would, but in other words you don’t need it, you already have the access open, just keep the access open. All is well.
[pause] Well, we could throw one other thing in, for what it’s worth, and that is, you might ramp up your hope just a little bit more, about your own physical situation. In other words, rather than settling, and saying, “well, this hurts but at my age I’ve got to expect it,” you might tend more to go, “this hurts and I’m going to stack the deck so it doesn’t.” Because you have those abilities. You know it, and you sort of put it off to the side sometimes. Not meant as chastisement, just as a suggestion.
R: Okay. I hear that. [Pause.] Can we just relax now into surroundings wherever you are, and just experience for a moment, and then if you can talk about it a little bit, we’d like to hear.
F: Yeah, I want to go up to 27 actually.
R: Okay. Very good.
F: [A 153-second pause] My elbows are pushing against wood, very uncomfortable. My hands are on that chair again, the Egyptian chair again.
R: Okay. Go along with the experience.
F: [pause] Feels like I’m wearing some kind of a constricting helmet, only not in front of my face, but around the back. Got a headache, too, and I’ve had it for a while.
R: Check out that feeling
F: A sense of a hawk, seen sideways. Head of a hawk. It’s connected somehow with the headache. Or is it more of a — ?
There’s something heavy on my head, I think. It’s a funny feeling. This thing goes from, I don’t know, about the front of my ears all the way around the back of my head — up sort of straight. Feels like it’s metal, but it might not be. And it’s got this constricting band around my temples. And then this weight. But the weight is not on the top of my head, the feeling of weight is around the size of my head.
R: Is there some meaning there for you?
F: Well it has to do with Egypt, somehow. The position of my hands, and the feeling behind my elbows, I know — because I very carefully haven’t moved my hands since I’ve been in here — I know that they’re not in the position that these things are reporting. But, doesn’t matter. A sharp pain on the inside of my elbows too, like it’s being forced. Inside and outside, hmm. Yet my lower body has no sense of being seated. [Pause.] It’s hardly there. [Pause.]
R: You’re having a sense of being held in a fixed position?
F: Holding myself in a fixed position, I think. In fact I’m going to move my physical arms, because this is painful. Actually was cramping up my shoulders even. Gentlemen, you got a message about all this? Or is this just amusement here?
R: Tell us what’s going on.
F: Well, moving my arms parallel to my body again changed the nature of its somehow. There this calm like, majesty, I mean it’s just really magisterial. And has to do with, —
Well I don’t know, it might be a ceremony or something, it feels like my arms are being held parallel to the ground while I’m upright. They’re out straight, resting on this maybe padded surface, each arm. But they are held straight out. And I think I’m standing. Pretty sure I am. It’s something ceremonial. A sense of the river, but that could be overlay of course.
R: Can you tell what this figure is thinking?
F: Huh. Well, let’s see. Let’s see if I can –
I actually forgot I’m in 27! I wonder if I am I wonder if I wandered over there. Well let’s see.
[Pause.] Well, for what it’s worth, he’s thinking, “this is my land and these are my people and I’m responsible for them.” And it’s not a big crisis thing, it’s just a calm “this is the way it is.” And he’s looking at the city by the river, which seems more like a lake almost, because it’s very prominent in their consciousness. And we would hardly call it a city, it looks more like a suburb, because the buildings are small and there’s lots of greenery amongst them, it’s not all just urban stone. But I guess he’s –
He must be up, I think he’s up in the air some. That is to say, he’s on some elevated thing, because he’s looking down at it. But that’s the sense of it. And he’s holding his hands, he’s holding his arms out somewhere between a blessing and an administering thing. “These are my people, this is my land, this is my responsibility.”
And I know that he’s facing south. [pause] And it’s daytime. And that’s the river on the right, which makes sense. Okay so he’s on the east side of the Nile. I want to say he’s up on a pyramid or something, but I don’t really think that’s true. I think it’s a temple of some kind. If not a temple —
Yes, it’s a temple because he’s in his – oh, is he? He’s in his role as high priest of some kind. May not be the high priest, you know; some kind of priest’s role.
Oh! And this may not be a pharaoh or something either. It may not be a political leader. It may be that he’s leading in a non-physical way, but nonetheless it’s just the same, “these are my people, this is my land, this is my responsibility.”
Yes I don’t think he’s a political leader. Well, there’s not the difference that we would have. Well, wait a minute, let’s look at this a little bit. [Pause.]
Your political leader, like the pharaoh or anybody underneath him, would be concerned with the external adjustments of society, the making the machine run smoothly. It’s not politics the way we think of it, because everyone has the same vision of it, and they just administer. But the spiritual leader is doing the same kind of administering, but on the non-physical level. Hmm. Again it’s more like being a doctor than being a pope. And the pharaoh is more like a streets commissioner then like a king. That’s not fair, but — (Lousy pun too.)
I guess what I mean is, the levels of problems are entirely different from ours. There are whole kinds of problems that we have that don’t even enter into it for them, because they are unitary society that shares the same vision. And therefore it becomes a matter of rather routine things, and you certainly don’t have or need a house of Parliament to argue about whether they should follow this or that tack.
Similarly, the spiritual leader, if you want to call him that, is not involving making people believe or questioning their orthodoxy or anything like that, it’s more like a doctor, it’s more like adjusting to the spiritual needs of individuals who may be tempted to lose the frequency, shall we say.
It’s a simpler world than ours. One of the reasons its simpler is because they’re more on the beam. And they live in an oasis, which helps. They have long harsh surroundings to protect them, as America did when it had its oceans.
R: How is this person feeling about the way in which he doing his job?
F: [Pause.] Well, I don’t get any sense of pride or self-criticism. It’s very matter-of-fact. [Pause.] Certainly not, “Oh my God, this job is too big for me,” or “I’m bigger than this job I can do better things,” you know. In fact I don’t think there was that in there anywhere there. It’s like, that sense of “this is my land, these are my people, this is our responsibility”; it’s like when you put on an old coat and it fits comfortably. It’s a comfortable fit for him, it’s not a stretch. It’s not a stretch and it’s not a burden, it’s an indirect way of saying who he is, really, to himself.
R: Do you have the sense that this is a picture of you in another time and place?
F: [laughs.] Well, if I had that sense, there would be the guys ready to say, “no, you don’t get it.” Laughs. But I think there’s a resonance.
R: OK. They would accept that. The resonance feeling.
F: You know, I really don’t know, but my understanding of what they say is that when we go back to them, something else comes out, but it isn’t exactly us coming out, it’s shining through what we were. I don’t know. If someone were to say this was a past life of mine, I’d say “well, I’m losing ground, but that’s wonderful.”
R: Well, they have suggested a thread connecting some various experiences.
F: A resonance, for sure.
R: Do you have a sense of that? Does this figure anything important to say to you?
F: Well, he’s the one who’s often in the crystal, you see. He’s the one who holds the frequency. He’s one of us who holds the frequency.
R: So there’s no particular message from him today, other than what he’s contributing?
F: Well, I think the message actually is in the widening of the channel of communication. It will be easier next time and next time, you know. In other words, I won’t have to come into the black box to do this. [pause] I think.
R: The connection’s somehow stronger?
F: Yeah, we widened the channel. I want to see if I can see Bertram here. This would be a good time for it. Bertram being the Norman Monk.
R: Yes.
F: [22 second pause.] it’s funny. Kelly says he was a bishop later, but I’ve never seen him as a bishop, I always see him as a young man. [48 second pause.]
R: Are you still getting some impressions?
F: Well, actually I’m just getting impressions of the cathedral, because I’ve physically been there this time. Not him particularly. We can go on if you want to do something else.
R: I think we’re about coming to the end of the session.
F: Another 10 minute session, huh?
R: You want another 10 minutes?
F: No, I say another 10 minute session.
R: Well I see.
F: It doesn’t feel like a long time.
R: Is there anything else you’d like to do before we start coming back?
F: Anything for Skip?
R: Skip says you’ve only been in there nine minutes so you’ve got one more minute.
F: [laughs.] Well he can forget getting messages from heaven by way of me then. [Laughs.] No, whenever you want’s all right.
R: All right, Skip has a suggestion that you return to 25, the belief system territory, and see if there’s any information there for you.
F: Well that’s interesting. [nine second pause.] Well, my eyes opened up right away. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s something here. I feel like I’ve waked up in the dark, and am looking around. [Pause.] Is there somebody here I should meet, or would like to talk to me? [Pause.] Man, there’s this big heavy weight like on top of my stomach as if I were standing up. [Pause.] Like a big metal box or something or a wooden box. [sigh].
R: Can you identify what’s in the box? Or what the box is?
F: [Pause.] No, not really. I think it’s more like whoever it is was carrying the box, maybe on a chain around his neck or something. [Pause.] Or maybe it’s a priest. I don’t know what they would carry there. Cross maybe, or something, I don’t know. [Pause.] My right shoulder suddenly hurts for no physical reason and that sense of –
Skip, did you have a reason for suggesting this? Some thought?
Skip: No, not particularly.
F: Looking for a clue here. There’s something going one but I can’t figure it out.
Skip: Ask guidance.
F: There’s a thought. [Pause.] You know, I get a real sense of “to be continued.” Like, we’ll do this later. Or come back to this.
R: All right
F: Maybe not even in here. Maybe on my own.
R: You want to move back then through focus 23 and then to focus 21?
F: Sure. [Pause. sigh] All right, you can take me back.