Year: 2025

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

TGU and We Co-Exist

R: When Frank speaks to you, it’s as though he thinks you are seeing things from a somewhat different perspective than he is, or perhaps a higher perspective than he has. So the different perspective suggests that there’s some separation there.

TGU: Think of it as a difference in emphasis. If you are partly in time-space and partly outside of time-space, as you move your emphasis, you move your experience. We – meaning what he calls the guys upstairs – are primarily outside of time-space. You are primarily in time-space. We both extend both places, because there’s no other way it can be. Everyone is everywhere. Everyone is the only place there is. But if our emphasis is over here and your emphasis is over there, yes, it is going to change the point of view. We would suggest to you, though (which will shake up everybody’s concepts, we hope) that we can slide our point of view down toward you, and in fact we do it all the time. You can slide your emphasis up toward us, and you do it all the time. As would have to be, because it’s the same thing!

It’s difficult for us to explain how it is, because everything you see is divided by time-slices, and a reality that is experienced in time-slices, or space-slices, can only be experienced as sequential or fragmented. There’s nothing wrong with that. But we once showed Frank that it was difficult for us to kind of remember where he was, because if you had a five-foot long fish, and you had to find one scale on the fish because that’s where he happened to be, you could have occasional difficulties finding that scale on the fish, you see. [they chuckle] We know that he doesn’t like the analogy much, but that’s too bad.

R: Were you available to Frank before he recognized that consciously?

TGU: Oh, certainly! It would not be possible to live in 3D Theater, as you call it, with only the resources that you have [on your side]. You don’t recognize the help you’re being given every minute. You can learn to, but you don’t necessarily.

R: Was there an effort on your part to get Frank’s attention?

TGU: [laughs] We would hardly say an effort! [they laugh]

Frank: I think they’ve insulted me enough, we can go on. [Rita and I laugh] They were implying stubbornness, if you didn’t hear it. [We chuckle again, then it’s back into TGU mode.]

TGU: In fact one of the things that makes him the most valuable made him the most difficult, and that is the repeated, “I don’t want to be fooling myself, I don’t want to assume something’s true which may not turn out to be true, I don’t want to be a dupe, I don’t want to be a victim of wishful thinking.” It required demonstration after demonstration after demonstration. But that exact trait also makes him a better witness, because it gives him a place to stand. Nobody could possibly be as stubborn resisting him as he was resisting us.

R: That sounds in character, there.

TGU: [chuckles]

 

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram.]

Blurring Distinctions

R: In Frank’s book Muddy Tracks, he seemed able to clearly distinguish between when he was speaking and you were speaking. When he speaks now, or when he’s in laboratory sessions, I find it difficult to know who is speaking. Is this increasingly true for Frank?

TGU: No. What’s happening is that he was required to make a Copernican worldview shift first, and to do that found it either necessary or convenient to almost over-emphasize the difference between us. That was the only way he could conceptualize it. But he began realizing that we’re often speaking through him, perhaps to say something important to someone else who had to hear it from a human voice because they weren’t able to hear it inside. Once he realized that, he began seeing it more, and then he began seeing other aspects of himself – other lifetimes, as you call it – going in and going out, in and out, and then he began to deduce, correctly, that he does the same thing there [i.e., speaking from other lifetimes’ point of view], unconsciously usually. The more he looked into it, the more he realized, it isn’t “me” versus “them,” it’s really I/them, or it’s us, or it’s me. You know, all the distinctions blurred.

Which is good! Because the distinctions were never accurate in the first place. They were, shall we say, a necessary detour, because if you are entrapped in a given logical structure, the only way out may be to go to an equally inadequate structure which nonetheless is different, so that the comparison frees you from both. So he initially said, “This is me, this is them,” then went to “Well, maybe this is me, maybe this is them,” and as time went on, found that in ordinary life – there’s only ordinary life.

That was another distinction that he had made as a halfway house, you know, the ordinary life versus talking with us! But there’s only ordinary life. Or, there’s only talking to us, whichever way you want to look at it; it doesn’t make any difference. Or there’s both. Or there’s neither.

R: So, then this has to do primarily with the extent to which Frank is conscious of it?

TGU: [pause] We would say it has primarily to do with a mental re-structuring. Your mental structures are ordinarily transparent to you, and therefore they are an almost infallible way of warping the world. That’s not necessarily bad or good, but it’s the way it is. Getting through the structures is always provisional, always incomplete, because you really can’t live in 3D Theater without structures. But it’s worthwhile to exchange them, to remind yourself that in fact you don’t have the structure; you know, the truth.

The Sphere and the Hologram, 15^th anniversary edition, published by SNN / TGU Books, is available as print or eBook from Amazon and other booksellers.

 

 

 

[Excerpts from conversations between Rita Warren and “the guys upstairs,” in the years 2001 and 2002, edited from The Sphere and the Hologram..]

 The Nature of Individuals

Rita: Once Frank crosses over, is there some reason to believe that he won’t join those of you who are speaking to him?

TGU: Well, he couldn’t help it. Oh, you mean, in our function?

R: In the functions that you’re engaged in right now.

TGU: [pause] Well, he’s an explorer and a teacher by inclination. It’s part of him. But he has lots of other parts that are other things. [laughs] We’ll give you a choice of answers: yes and no. [they laugh] Yes, in that that particular atom of our being will be on call for a specific person who needs to talk to him, when he’s the closest resonance to someone who’s talking. But the difference between him and Frank is so –

You think, because you’re in bodies, that the body makes a unit. But it doesn’t. The body has huge amounts of stuff inside it that function as a unit, sometimes better, sometimes worse. But the body holds together disparate things. Basically the body gives a point of view and a set of abilities and a locus in time and space. That’s really what the body does! So take away the body, and all those strands of the bundle – well, the analogy breaks down, but you see where we’re going with that?

R: There’s no reason to believe that these parts will hang together –

TGU: Well, they’re not going anywhere, but “there’s no reason to think of them only in that way” would be a better way to put it. Katrina would see them from Katrina’s point of view. It’s the same bundle. But there’s plenty more of that bundle that’s unsuspected and that does not manifest in that life, that would manifest somewhere else. So –

[At this point the tape ran out and a few seconds worth of plastic leader ran through until the cassette clicked off. We changed sides of the tape.]

R: Feel okay?

Frank: Yep. Where were we?

R: We were talking about the various bundles from different lifetimes. We could have a part of the energy moving across temporarily into the “there,” although that’s a time concept, which I assume you don’t want.

[TGU again]: The point is just that individuals are so much less individual than you think they are because they’re enclosed in a body. It would be like thinking that the electric components inside of a tape recorder are all inherently part of that tape recorder, but they’re not. They are, while they’re in a tape recorder, but the tape recorder could be taken apart and all the components reshuffled somewhere else. It’s a clumsy analogy, because that’s mechanical and not alive in that sense, but you understand.

So to talk about will “he” be doing this or that later, in a way we’ll say no, “he” is only here between the time that he’s born and the time he dies, which is a finite thing. That’s a slice of reality during which he functions in a certain way. That slice of reality doesn’t go away; it’s just that you’re not experiencing it. Thomas Jefferson functioned as a particular bundle in a certain place. He’s still doing it in that place, it’s just you can’t access that place.

R: You’ve talked a number of times about the idea of other lives, with the suggestion that parts of the energy field that represent Frank now have participated in other lifetimes – other experiences in different physical bodies.

TGU: With the exception of the tenses of the verbs, we agree with that. It’s more like, “are participating,” although we know that’s nearly incomprehensible to all of you.

R: Well, it is nearly incomprehensible, but I can understand that there is such a concept.

TGU:  New Jersey doesn’t cease to exist when you move to New York, but you can’t access it. And in the case of time, you don’t have the ability to go backwards to where you were. Seemingly.

— Edited from The Sphere and the Hologram, published by SNN / TGU Books. Available as print or eBook from Amazon. and other booksellers.