The forces that flow through us

April 13, 2010

4:30 PM. Dr. Jung, reading your ideas about the repressed unconscious breaking out and causing chaos — can we relate that to my guys upstairs, and to the thought I just had?

The system will have its application to any other system until the limits of analogy causes it to break down. How could two systems dealing with the same aspects of reality not relate to each other? It would indicate that at least one was seriously in error.

The guys upstairs — we guys upstairs, I suppose I must say — are forces, or conduits of forces, as much as they are localized consciousnesses. Over and above whatever one is or does as an individual is what one is or does as a representative of his ancestors — spiritual and physical both.

If one is a conduit for vast forces, and those forces cannot flow because there is a dam constructed somewhere on the physical side — well, at some point there is likely to be a collapse and then a flood!

Suppose that you are living your life in a merely conscious, routinized way. You do not get into touch with your “unconscious” aspects — your guys upstairs as they manifest in your life. You seek to conform to a code that may be well-meaning but does not fit your psychology. Your life and externally is more or less a rejection, a repudiation, of the internal life that more truly represents you.

Yes, it is true that you can choose, and it is your choice. But it is also true that too long a time spent making bad choices will lead to results.

For an individual considered as an individual, the stakes may not be too high. What is a frustrated life worth, one may ask. But — pile enough of these dead leaves, and you have the making of a tremendous bonfire.

You need, in life, to come to terms with evil, chiefly by seeing that antithetical values nevertheless have their rights. They must be honored, as the sexual forces must be honored or suffered to run disruptively riot.

If forces have become embodied, it is [in order] that they may be expressed. If too much unbalanced non-expression takes place — too much repression in a certain direction — then to that degree the will of the other side, as mobilized, is being frustrated.

You have not given thought to how this side can have a will of its own. You think of us as dim and almost passive. But you ought to be able to see that whatever formed you in bundles did so through will, discernment, and purpose.

Interacting with the non 3D

Wednesday, September 11, 2019

2:55 a.m. I watched “Kardec” on Netflix last night, on Charles [Sides]’ recommendation. (The film was made in Brazil. Entertaining to see all those French citizens speaking Portuguese!) Very well done, showing how very isolated he was in that materialist era, a true scientist willing and able to pursue facts without being hobbled by the accepted prejudices of the day. A beautiful love story, in the devotion of him and his wife. Of course I don’t know how faithful to the facts the movie was, but it was beautiful as told.

How isolated these pioneers were: Kardec, later Cayce, Roberts, Monroe – less so as time went on, until today we live in an entirely new era, but perhaps we wouldn’t have reached this new jumping-off place without their work. It is true, the spirits told Kardec that he would not have to do the work; that others were ready to do it if he wouldn’t. Still, it cost him, and surely he could see the cost looming before the bill was presented. No small thing, to have achieved a reputation for scientific investigation and be forced to lay it on the altar of the fears of people and their institutions.

3:25 a.m. Guys? Anything today, or do we take a day off?

You can always take a day off merely by not showing up, and, as we have said more than once, sometimes that’s appropriate.

And you, on your end? What are the variables?

On our end nothing, in effect, because we are not constricted by time-slices. Hence, if we cannot work “now,” we can work “later,” and you won’t see the difference.

Except sometimes in mid-process you have asked for time to think.

Yes. Perplexing you extremely, if we recall!

Well, it did. I half-remember you saying the obstacle was actually on my end anyway.

Perhaps a more careful way to say it is that what is available to you depends upon where you are mentally. Some things that are a stretch in one “mood” or at one phase of your life are not a stretch at another. This is not a variable from this end, but of course it may look like it.

So in terms of your recent description of the mental field as an interaction between 3D field and non-3D field –

Surely you can see that a field that continually fluctuates, although within limits, fluctuates in what it is in resonance with. Someone who habitually thinks high thoughts – to make this example severely practical – is going to resonate to different fields than those of one who habitually thinks low ones, or who alternates between the two.

This is the same thing you’ve been saying all along: We shape who we become through our choices.

That’s correct. And this is a way of explaining the process via a different analogy, and a vivid image.

Yes, true. And our choices affect others to some extent.

Isn’t this what religions have always said? Isn’t it common sense, once you see that everything (hence every one) is interconnected? But the electrical field analogy may make it intuitively more obvious.

So what do people do – oh, never mind, I hear the answer before I finish the question. I was going to ask, how do people deal with conflicting voices, and the answer is, Test the spirits.

It requires rashness to accept anything on faith alone. Sometimes that is appropriate, sometimes not. But why take the chance? If something appeals to you, you tend to accept it, but is this the wisest course? If everyone told the truth, it would be merely a matter of openness. If everyone’s intentions were pure, if people could be accepted at face value, that’s one thing. But life in 3D is not that simple. Why would you expect it to be in non-3D?

Yet I have been accepting you and your information for a quarter of a century and more.

But – have you? Uncritically? Without doubt and questioning and demand for evidence, and without qualifying further questions? We would hardly say you accepted everything on faith – nor would we have wanted you to.

Rita continually posed many questions that would not have occurred to me, and often obtained greater clarity that way. I have always regretted that my ability to talk to you was not accompanied by the gift of analysis and cross-examination, and I have hoped for another Rita to perform that function.

You had Rita herself, for four books of transcript worth!

That’s true, but that only backs the problem up one level.

We understand. It is using a non-3D voice to validate non-3D voices.

The fact that I could recognize the feel of my old friend from 3D did make a difference. But you and I for once are on the same page here, it seems, on the question of the utility of doubt.

We have never been on different pages, except in appearance. You stressed your doubts and we counter-balanced the boat by giving you reason to have faith. If you had gone too far in the opposite direction (as you have, occasionally, actually) in semi-deifying us or the message, we would have, and did, counter-balance in the opposite direction, reminding you that no communication may safely be assumed to be pure and undistorted. What we both want is a clearly flowing stream that is not accepted as gospel and is not discarded as fantasy, but is considered, examined, held up to one’s inner truth-detector. And we’d say we’ve both done pretty well at that.

Only now it gets more complicated.

Well, it is complicated, in that we need people to see how to be accepting and critical at the same time. Some will know how to do it instinctively; some can learn how (some merely need it to be pointed out and that’s enough) and some will never be able to balance, but will land on one side or the other.

And the problem is that we are now bringing into consideration the vast impersonal forces you have been leading us toward.

Think now of those forces as if they were gravitational fields, or electrical fields, or, better, magnetic fields. (These are not scientific analogies, because that is not your playground, but they provide images, which will help people to leap the gap.)

That does help. I can feel that my mental field may be interfered with or rather must interact with

Think of it as, in effect, the mental weather. You live among the weather generated by the magnetic currents of the day interacting with the magnetic fields that exist regardless of a specific day.

Terrifically mixed metaphor!

Yes, but we’re trying for an image, not for a definition. You are small boats on a great ocean. You don’t cause the tides or the waves or the atmospheric conditions, all you can do is adapt to them. Or, you are airplanes in a vast sky whose barometric pressure, jet streams, humidity, thunderstorms, etc. you must cope with but cannot control. Or, a third analogy, you are a localized electro-magnetic field interacting not only with a larger field from which you have been thrown off, but with huge external fields independent of your control.

We mean to convey:

  • You are small; the universe is not.
  • You are isolated in effect, no matter how connected you are in fact.
  • You are in unbreakable connection with the field that is the present moment, but neither you nor it is what appears. “Present moment” is not evanescent nor fragile nor perishable, and neither are you.
  • You are not an accident but are part of a system, and have been thrown up in the course of events. Is there such a thing as an accident or a meaningless event?

The bottom line here is that you are not isolated nor meaningless to the rest of reality. Hw could you be? But you may need to function as if you were. Well, if so, so what? There are millions of roles to be played, and the roles are always filled. If Allen Kardec hasn’t said yes, someone else would have, and the world would have continued to spin.

That reminds me of the rhyme Andrew Johnson liked.

“No matter what you sing or say

The world rolls on the same old way,

And he who would possess his soul

Must hang on tight and let her roll.”

Well, sometimes you may prefer to ride “no hands,” but otherwise, sure, that’s the way life is. In non-3D, just as in 3D. It isn’t profitable to consider non-3D as if it were populated by autistic individuals, any more than 3D.

Yeah, but can we trust you?

You know what it said in “Maverick,” so many years ago, “If you can’t trust your banker, who can you trust?”

You’ve got me smiling. I can even tell you the name of the episode: “Shady Deal at Sunny Acres,” though I don’t remember the plot, thank God.

You remember more than you think.

I’ll save it for my past-life review. Thanks for all this.

 

Papa on what to write

Wednesday, April 14, 2010

3 p.m. So what should I write about? This incessant anxiety to write a book — and this poverty of first-hand experience. It makes a problem.

Papa? How would you handle it?

I’d get the experience, or I’d write what I know, or I’d forget about doing either.

Yes, that seems to be the range of choice. So what do I know? What does it look like from your side?

From here it looks like you are trying to imagine yourself somebody else. You write – or think of writing – from a life that is not yours. Why not from your life, not from what you imagined to be a believable life?

You are different. For Christ’s sake, how typical do you suppose I was? It was the life I could write about – hunting, fishing, writing, traveling – that people read because it wasn’t their life.

Write science fiction, or rather, write metaphysical fiction – just what fascinates you – and see what happens. Your only other story must deal with the human side of someone who strives to be beyond human – or the struggles against the all-too-human entanglements of hostility and love.

Only don’t outline anything here. It’ll get lost. And – to clear your skirts – make a list of the things you wish you had already done – the journal transcriptions, etc.

The mental field, feelings, images, and health

Tuesday, September 10, 2019

4:50 a.m. So, guys, shall we continue?

Maybe. You understand, the subject is complicated. Not only is the viewpoint unfamiliar to you, there are many unsuspected and half-suspected ideas in what they call your subconscious or unconscious mind that will tend to interfere with reception.

My jumping to conclusions, you mean?

In a way. That’s how and why one jumps to conclusions: the inner preconceived ideas rush to finish a sentence in a comfortable manner.

That makes the ideas seem like they have a life of their own.

That’s almost so. It would be a way of looking at things that isn’t all that untenable. You might think of ideas as whirlpools: fixed patterns that are themselves continually in motion, but motion whose structure is held within limits by its own internal dynamics.

So that we as patterns interact with ideas as patterns.

As an electrical analogy, yes.

Electronics isn’t my strong point.

No, and neither is psychology or so many fields that might have been helpful but nobody has every qualification that would help. We do the best we can – to quote Bob Monroe.

First you[-all] must cease to define yourselves as primarily creatures of reason. You aren’t. You are primarily creatures of emotion, of feelings. Thought comes a long way second, if at all. Many a person lives without thought; nobody lives without feelings. But just because this is so, doesn’t mean it is recognized as being so.

I had a friend who was convinced he didn’t have feelings.

You had two friends that way, actually. But what they were convinced of, and what was true, was two different things.

Somebody – Cayce? – said feelings are the language of the soul.

Let’s put it in unfamiliar ways, so as to give you the shock of unrecognition if possible. What you experience as feelings could be seen as resonances of a smaller field with a larger. What you experience as thought is either the association of various fields as it presents itself spontaneously, or the rationalization of the meaning of resonances experienced.

Not quite meaningful to me. Almost, but not quite.

We are constrained by the limitations of the analogy and the limitations of your associations to the analogy. This is why when we can we prefer to stick to images.

How does that work?

Images, like dreams or daydreams, connect things by emotional logic that mechanical logic would never connect.

By mechanical logic, I take it you mean what we call thinking.

More like the limits to your thinking.

Hmm. What our previously accepted ideas allow us to entertain.

That’s right. Your mind is many things. One of them is a huge fragile malleable open-ended structure of associations. This is what any new input has to interact with, either meshing or clashing or being unable to secure entrance in any way. It is your stability, only it is a dynamic stability, changing as the field changes, responsive to alterations in the surrounding fields that affect it.

One way to seriously affect this existent structure is to enter input by way of emotional logic, and this of course is entirely disregarded by any theory that confines itself to mechanical logic on the one hand and environmental “external” influence on the other. This inter alia is why Freud’s work was a bomb in the workings of the civilization of his day. He showed in its own terms that what had looked like a closed system was not, and, worse, that the openings were not subject to any of the laws set down by mechanical logic, which is what the science of the day believed in.

All right. And so?

Your original query was as to the connections between illness and health and time, and circumstance, and mental position or attitude. This is what we are working to explain.

I don’t get the connection yet.

We are scarcely launched. Again, there is a lot of conceptual deadwood to be cleared.

I understand. I’d help if I could.

Consider your body, now. You experience it as a physical being, as a solid complicated organism that has continuity in 3D and leads an existence somewhat independent of you. That is, it breathes, it processes sugars, it maintains complicated physiological systems that interact to create ongoing homeostasis. That is, it doesn’t depend on you to exist, but it does depend on you to do more than exist. In effect, the body is presented as a ready-made chariot for you to ride, but it rides to a large extent where you want it to ride, and how you want it to ride. In other words, it isn’t independent of you, but it does have its own existence.

Understood.

Yes, but maybe only poorly understood. Remember, not only mentally but physically, you are not only an individual, you are also a community. Communities get along well or badly.

An ill-assorted community may show as a physically ill individual?

That’s jumping a little too far, but you are in the right direction.

Conditions vary.

Look to your horoscope: It defines the community that constellated at that moment. Not that the moment determined the constellation; more like that constellation may have had to wait for the proper time to allow it to form in 3D. But, the horoscope will tell you many things if you will use it not to predict which door you will go through (and what will happen when you do), but what is the internal relationship pattern and how will it manifest as conditions proceed.

Yes, we touched on this sometime fairly recently. A horoscope with oppositions indicates a community somewhat at cross-purposes, etc.

It delignates accurately the energetic pattern your life begins with. How you modify those patterns is up to you, but they are your starting point.

Oh, and – why wasn’t I seeing this? – that’s the link between health and its fluctuations. What we are at birth leaves us prey to, or immune to, fluctuations in the external environment, quite independent of our own emotional world within.

Again, a little slower. You say independent of your emotional world within; we need to be sure that people understand that this assumes (correctly) that internal and external influences are, in effect, not quite interchangeable, but equally internal; put it that way. There is no such thing really as “external” because the walls between you and the world are not walls at all. At most they are shock waves between systems, or, better, interface patterns. So, external events like sunrise or sunset may impact you directly without any emotional input on your part.

Like Seasonal Affective Disorder. People are sensitive to lack of sunlight, and it has nothing to do with their being resolutely cheerful or not.

Well, you are closer there than you realize. Someone with SAD may in fact counteract it to a degree by a consciously-induced counter-irritant. Similarly, you can and often do counter asthmatic conditions by a resolute calmness, or let’s say a willed lowering of internal tension. You aren’t helpless in bodies, but you do need to keep in mind the fact that you have them.

Or they have us.

Either way. And that is enough for the moment.

Hmm. Thanks. Something to think about, here.

 

Hans Porr on the mental as field

[I encourage my friends to look at these. They are very interesting.]

Frank

today’s dialogue you have hit upon a subject that is very dear to me.  As a matter of fact, I have been dealing with this, or similar, in my own dialogues for now about 4 months, with my own contacts “upstairs” which I call “The Club” 🙂

(back in March or so you pushed me to try it myself, and I have been doing this now almost daily).

I want to point out three articles, one is a summary, and two are dialogues with the Club that may help with today’s insight of the “mental field.”  There are but three out of now dozens (if not a hundred)  that deal with a subject matter similar to this field idea.

Reconciling materialism and idealism: Churning: how matter and consciousness form and relate

The Pulse of Being

All is holographic: All is there already, yet created at the same time

There are many others, but it is all cross linked, so if one should strike your interest, it’s all easy to find.

Anyway, technically, I have been heavily influenced by David Bohm’s quantum physics as well as the many-world interpreation.  Just consider that Bohm constituted something new back then which he called “the quantum potential”, which is similar to a field but it is non-local, that is, it does not attenuate over distance, so space is taken out of it.  Your idea today, as far as we need to take the spacial distinction out of it, expresses this as well.

Maybe this will spark something new for you.

Sending Love

~Hanns

The mental as a field

Monday, September 9, 2019

2:25 a.m. Wheezing, more coughing, sneezing. Maybe this is why I spent so much time sleeping yesterday – sleeping while I could.

Since I scheduled a post yesterday of my reactions to the Hemingway quote I hate, I feel no particular compulsion to converse on the record, guys. But – anything you care to say off the record?

You mean, is there anything you would like kept off the record.

All right, say it that way.

You don’t need to converse with us to go back to that place of health. Concentrate on that for its own sake.

Okay. Worth trying.

5:55 a.m. And it did work. First in the desk chair, then in the zero-gravity chair, then finally I was able to go to bed. But I see I gained only three hours. Still, that’s a lot sometimes.

7:45 a.m. And I guess I’m up for the day. I got my night’s sleep in bits. Three installments, looks like.

9:55. Things seem more or less normal. Only in the daytime (if then). Why? Actually, no reason to leave that as a rhetorical question. Why?

In sleep, or toward sleep when weariness is great enough, the equation changes.

Between mental and physical?

That is how we conceptualized it for you, years ago, but not really. It’s more like physical – which includes mental, though you didn’t know that then – and non-physical, which also includes mental, which you did not realize in quite this way.

So physical – mental – non-physical, with each of the extreme terms sharing space in the middle, so to speak.

Yes, but do not think to divide mental between the two. The point is that the two share the space you call mental. That’s what it is; that’s what creates it and its unique properties, that it is shared between them.

I tend to say interfaces between them, but even that isn’t quite right, is it?

It isn’t sufficient. Look at it this way. Suppose you have two fields, rather than one of them being what you call substance, or matter. [That is, suppose matter is actually a field.] The intersection and interaction and interference of these two fields may be considered as an entity in itself. It isn’t, really; it isn’t part of either, but it is the result of the interaction. And that is what mind is. That’s why it is so volatile, so sensitive to perturbation, so creative of interpretation.

God, I can feel it, I’m so close to something that would make sense of so much, but I don’t have the scientific background to grasp it.

In this case, that background would hinder you, because enmeshed in too many firmly held misconceptions. This is why it requires amateurs, to be able to disrupt well-ordered and accepted ways of thinking.

But it isn’t like nobody else is getting this. I can sense that.

No, and isn’t that good? Redundancy is the best safeguard.

Proceed, then.

Paul Brunton sensed and deduced that your experience of the world (that is, of reality) can only come via the mind, hence the mind is the ultimate

You were saying?

Leaving it as “the ultimate” is fine. He was careful not to think the world away – that is, dismiss it as only an illusion – and not to take its independent existence for granted. He balanced.

Yes, I found it very reasonable. It felt right.

Well, now look at that “mental” as a field interacting with 3D and non-3D always. Is it an individual field, when it interacts as well with every other mental field? Is it a collective field, when it uniquely interacts with at least one field (the 3D) that is unique, and perhaps both? (The non-3D, remember, though not divided is not uniform. As above, so below.)

It is both and neither, depending upon what we stress.

Of course. And what happens to that field when the 3D pole ceases to exist: that is, dies?

I see it! In terms of time, the mental field ceases to exist, for there is no second pole to hold it in being. But wherever it was, it remains. The mind – the mental field – that was suspended between George Washington’s 3D existence and the non-3D remains in that context. That’s why we can still talk to past lives, why we can interact with living beings and not merely statues or recordings.

You must damp down your excitement if we are to continue.

Yeah, I get that. I’d flare up like a flash bulb, and then out.

Except you are a reusable bulb, but there could be recharging time involved.

Okay.

So now you can see several interacting awarenesses, if only potentially.

I won’t be able to follow up on them, but others will once it has been called to their attention, and that’s what you are using me for.

Correct, except it is “we” using you – that is, you and us together. But that is one function of the ILC process, and one reason to spread the usage, to provide more people willing and able to strike sparks.

So let’s make it practical for me, and for those of my friends experiencing chronic health challenges. Rather than consider illnesses as 3D-caused (only), or as “spiritually” caused (as if it is one’s fault for hosting illness because illness can be overcome), what is the story seen when we consider our mental world to be a field generated by and suspended from the interaction between 3D and non-3D fields?

You mean, what’s the panacea?

I’ve waited 70 years. Surely long enough?

We smile. Yes, long enough, and in one sense you never needed to wait at all, only it served you well.

I suppose it did, but it gets tiresome. For me, for others with their own problems. And kindly don’t say that life is problems, we all know that first-hand. But maybe we’d like to shuffle the deck, deal with some other problems instead.

As you wish, only remember that there’s a reason why some people choose the devil they know over the devil they don’t know.

Well, there is that, and I admit, it does give me pause. However, if you’re in the mood to explain, I’m in the mood to listen, and everybody can make up his or her mind.

Fair enough. All right, first, recognize that customarily you all regard yourselves as primarily mental, no matter how attached to physical sensations you may be.

Do you mean “experience,” rather than “regard”?

A valid correction, and experiencing yourselves one way leads to regarding yourselves that way, of course.

I would have said (judging second-hand) that most people experience themselves as inhabitants of bodies.

That does not contradict what we said. The person who is most sensuously oriented still does not identify with the body as a collection of cells and organs, but as the horse it (the person) rides. A beautiful girl may identify with her beauty and her appetites; still she identifies as the person who, you see. Similarly the athlete or the lover or anyone concentrating on primarily physical activities still experiences himself or herself as the person who. They don’t identify with the muscles; they identify with having the muscles.

That probably could be expressed more clearly, but I get it.

It is easier to see in the case of those who experience the world primarily emotionally or intellectually, but it is the case always. You have bodies; you tend to and you use bodies; you may even think that you think of yourselves as bodies, but when you look more closely you see that it comes down to you using (living in) bodies. That is a small but important difference.

So now when something perturbs the body, does it really feel like it is perturbing you, or like it is perturbing something you are integrally bound to?

You know the answer to that. That’s why some of us are not afraid of death as an end but potentially welcome it as, you might say, an end to interference.

Yes. The interference has made clearer to you who you really are, body or mind. Then it is only a matter of whether you consider the mind to be an attribute of the body, which it is, in a way, or an independent entity, which it is in a way.

You mean, I think, “or an entity not dependent upon the body.”

Yes. In fact, not wholly dependent would be a more accurate statement.

And the definition we choose (or perhaps which seems obvious to us) determines how much we can or cannot affect things like health.

Like many things. But then let us penetrate a bit farther. The way in which one conceptualizes the mind as somewhat independent of the body also helps determine what is or is not possible.

Dammit, I’m getting too tired to do this.

You haven’t had breakfast, for one thing.

But I’m afraid if we leave off, you’ll never come back to this.

It is merely for you to ask.

Well, okay. A tremendously powerful image, the mind as a suspended field. I wish one of my friends would follow up on it. Meanwhile, thank you.

— And, as I think about this, I get that the next part may be too complicated to be tacked on to the end of a session. I guess we’ll see.

— I was doing the dishes when it occurred to me that, as so often, the distance analogy has snuck into the illustration. We tend to think of 3D and non-3D as separated in space, or anyway separated by something, rather than occupying identical or even overlapping spaces. If we could visualize every moment of time/space separately and simultaneously, it would be easier to see it as it is, maybe.

 

Protecting Mr. Lincoln

Thursday, April 8, 2010 11 AM

Mr. Lincoln, thinking of the slanders that are being spread about you. I can only say how sorry I am.

In a way, it will not matter. The union was saved, and we were freed from slavery. They cannot undo what the blood of so many patriots accomplished.

And, in another way, of course it matters. The old issues are arising again, because it adequately faced until now. And if not faced now, they will arise again. It can be no other way.

Does it affect you, people’s opinion of you?

Yes it does, but I’m not the one to explain that to you. I’ll let Dr. Jung tell you.

[C. G. Jung] Given the permanent connection between the physically manifested world and the world beyond the physical, you should be able to see that fluctuating opinion – and even more so, fluctuating intensity of opinion – cannot but have an effect. Thus, fortunate those who have not left a name for themselves; they shall be allowed to rest in peace.

And can it not work the other way, as well? Can you on your side influence us?

You must not forget that who we are and what we can do cannot be considered without taking into account our situation here. In the material world, balanced always on what it experiences as the present moment, there is an intensity that we on this side do not have and cannot summon. We are not a shout, but perhaps a persistent or recurrent humming.

I see. Is there anything we should be doing to counter things like the slanders on Lincoln?

What would you propose to do? Are you prepared to correct the entire world, one by one? Or, do you wish to write books saying again what will not be heard by those with reason for thinking otherwise? Do you wish to give your life to the making of propaganda? Better by far that you go your own way and trust that truth will make its own way. If you must engage in controversy, doing it person by person, as it arises, is more than enough for you to do. Others may have their own tasks that lead them into public controversy. Do you think that is your most productive way to occupy your remaining time?

No. Thanks, as always, and thank you, Mr. Lincoln, for all you did.