Insightful answers to Jon Holt’s question

Tuesday, November 17, 2009

9:15 p.m. Jon Holt’s question, to wit: What do you think of Jon intending, or carrying out, the ending of his life if his “negotiations” don’t work out? John, bless him, assures me that although he wants a specific as well as a general answer, he isn’t about to do anything at the moment. In other words, he won’t use words of mine (or yours) as sanction for drastic action. So, guys, I have waited till now (from yesterday night) because I wanted to have energy enough to bring something through. An answer that will help, please.

[Joyce] As one whose life was cut off, I can testify to the irreplaceable value of the gift of life, however irritating or depressing it may become. Remember – I would say – that you are in a very poor position to judge your life, always, because the present moment is always of exaggerated importance to you (necessarily, by the nature of life in material world conditions). What is unbearable at age 25 may be seen at age 50 to have been a great gift of whatever proportions, whatever nature. I know this doesn’t make anything feel any better to live, but it is important to remember to look on your judgments of your life with some skepticism.

[Bertram] In another age, we were taught resignation and faith, and although to you as an individual they may seem impractical or even undesirable, to you as a professional soul-doctor, they ought to appear useful and health-giving. Resignation doesn’t mean giving up hope; more like giving up despair. Faith is less belief in the unseen than it is disbelief that what is seen is all that is, or all that is important. Resignation and faith: They will bring you farther, brother, then feelings of inadequacy and isolation. Remember – even if you cannot feel its reality, remember – you are loved. The reason to know this is that all who are in bodies are loved, no exceptions. Admired, too, for what you are doing is difficult.

[Joseph the Egyptian] I come from a far pre-Christian age, so you can see that my attitudes and values were not shaped by your society or by any of the near predecessors of your society. Thus, our view of suicide, for instance, was not that of any of the strands of social belief that you live among. But at the same time, neither was our view of, our experience of, life in the physical. To us it was clear that life in the physical was temporary while life in the nonphysical was permanent including the time while we were in the physical. And, to us, the two sides were permeable – the barrier between them was – not by mental force and certainly not by physical manipulation, but via what would seem to you emotional threads. We could intuit our connection, you might say. We knew where we stood in relation between the worlds, in a direct way that was far more direct than words or concepts. This made the idea of our being out of place, or being in intolerable position, inconceivable. We always knew we had no cause for complaint, in other words, regardless of our circumstances. (Thus, no social protest over thousands of years, because no one was under the impression of being arbitrarily ill-used).

At the same time, if our bodies became burdens to us, we had no compunctions about ending the incarnation, for all could see that this was not a matter of revolt but of practicality. Yet one seeking to end his life for reasons of unhappiness would have been seen as a candidate for intensive therapy, as you would put it, until he could regain his perspective. It is one thing to recognize an undesirable or intolerable situation, another different thing to allow oneself to define rather than live and experience it.

How can you know the value of what you are tempted to lay down in your weariness?

[Carl Jung] Jonathan. Make of your suffering your gift to yourself, your world and your future. You experience an unreliable connection with your non-physical components. You see the elements of nonphysical guidance you connect with as unreliable or capricious or indeed malicious.

Consider this projection! And I do not mean this as chastisement, but as a course-correction.

If you (or anyone, of course) find yourself in connection with unreliable or capricious or malicious elements, this cannot be from arbitrary circumstance. It must proceed from elements within yourself. And the remedy is obvious, in this context: Consciously express other parts of yourself with the elements you wish to encounter.

If you allow yourself to express discouragement or cynicism, what can you attract but elements that vibrate on these wavelengths? If you train yourself to live in courage and faith, how can you not attract corresponding elements?

You have expressed a decent envy of Frank’s connections. Surely you can see that affection and intent to help and intent to communicate must be on either end of the relationship?

In short, if you don’t like your interlocutors, express a different part of yourself! This means, I hardly need to point out, that it is in your hands, awaiting your own change to attract what you want. Could there be anything more helpful?

Also, I am perfectly willing to communicate with you, as are so many others – only do not waste our time with self-indulgent discouragement. We are always anxious to help those wanting help – but those radiating self-pity, say, or cynicism, will attract like spirits, which would hardly be helpful.

Jonathan! Be well!

15 thoughts on “Insightful answers to Jon Holt’s question

  1. Love this!
    It has been much in my mind lately that so much of what the prevailing culture offers (through media) is – to me, at least, geared towards producing strife, war, disgust, despair. Almost as if there is a giant process of attention-distraction going on. We are so truly well off, so sheltered and safe, in a way that our ancestors could only dream of. And yet, so scared. So pissed off, so willing to get at each other’s figurative throats. Like a cartoon world, all emotions giantly exaggerated, smashing at each other, futilely, always ending where we begun.

    And yet, when I lie down to rest I can sometimes give up the stories of who does what to whom and how I think about it, and just feel the raw current of what I am swimming in. An abstract stream of something, that is quite different from what the stories are. Some colour/flavour currents that taste like life. A sweetness that is a pulsing joy of the moment, of the particular breath that I am breathing. Joy and peace are constantly there, but boy, do I know methods to keep myself from feeling them! And I mean, if driving in rush-hour, in a comfortable car, can shoot me into internal war and chaos, how does it compare to those who are being tortured and killed for their lifestyle/religion/opinions, and who still can reach that peace and joy?

    There is this really strong impulse to run outside of myself when things get rough. Demanding the world to change so that I could feel better. If just those other cars would not be there, I could be joyful and serene. I am working to find ways to sit and stew in the discomfort of world unfolding as it does. The thirst to fling oneseld into some war or another, for such fine goals like humanity – it is sooo tempting. I am giving energy to the strife – it is hard to admit. Hard to give up hope for a better world. Hard to give up regrets of how it could have been, if just this, that or the other thing had been different.

    1. My comment about how you got to joy was meant for Kristiina. I should have said comments, rather than posts.

      Lately I’ve been researching Joan of Arc, who has fascinated me for most of my life. My employees, when I was doing HIV/AIDS work, called me Jane of HARC (the acronym for our agency). Lol. I don’t think I was her in a past life, but I might have been her mother, Isabelle.

      It’s amazing that the transcripts of her trial, as well as the process that exonerated her, exist. There was a point at which she was first imprisoned by the English in a tower, and she jumped from it, knowing it might end her life. Instead, she was hardly injured. Bertram’s comments closely parallel her process of acceptance as she worked through her suicide attempt. She also comes to echo Joseph the Egyptian’s understanding as she faces her burning. For me, her strength in knowing the horror of her situation and still allowing/accepting it defines character/integrity. Also, she describes her communications with her three sources (St. Margaret, St. Catherine, and St. Michael) as “joyous in nature, always” even when the information exchanged scared or angered her, the love in it never wavered. She did not want to die (she recanted her sources once), especially by burning, and had always expected to be rescued by a miracle. But apparently she was able to be fully present at her burning. “Inhabit it [your path] with your heart. Love it as a heart does. Stand not outside of it. Wrap yourself in it, but with the goal of bringing it to God.” Quite a final contribution.
      Interesting to me to see no matter how situations change, the common spiritual themes persist–even if you’re being burned at the stake.

      1. Jane, would you care to share more of your conversation with Joan of Arc? I have had an interest in her life since childhood. Every year during the last stage of the Tour de France when the riders take their laps around Paris, I get chills every time they pass the gilded bronze equestrian statue of Joan of Arc. It is said that the statue is located near the place where Joan was wounded in 1429 during the failed attempt to take Paris. Thank you.

        1. Here are my notes. Some of it could be confusing:

          Jeanne d’Arc
          8/22/2019

          (Approach/avoidance. I wait for Jeanne…)
          >>Yes, I’m here, Jane, waiting to talk to you. These words join us in your world, so its an event–your time and space and mine meet, creating new pathways of light on the web of connection. It’s important/useful that mine intersect with yours at this time–a special infusion of light because of how you do think of me and yet are able to allow it.
          (As you did [with her sources], though I do it in a lesser way.)
          >>Ultimately, nothing is lesser. All ‘counts,’ as you would say. My communications were joyous in nature, always, even when the information exchanged was contrary (contraire) to me, the love of it never wavered. I would bring it back scared, resentful, angry, knowing my life would end in this way–in this bleak, harsh, cold place, as a poor freak of a girl, without the comfort of parents, the benediction of mass or communion, the solace of a friend, thinking I would not bear it. I would break. Except that I knew it fit me, my fate belonged to me, as Jhesus’ did to him. This is how we would cross, bringing something unheralded before with us, and leaving something permanently imprinted (she had better, French words for this) on the time and space behind us. I could see its glow. I knew, even as I (lamented) in terror, that I walked where none had, in service to my God–implacable, untouchable service. The girl of me cried out, “Father, take this cup…!” But the me of me drank boldly. You can see, even at my darkest hour, I could not, would not take it back [she did recant briefly]. I was already theirs–my saints and my saviour. The drama was necessary, of course, for the (imprint)–and that was the highest drama of the day. It had the attention by the horror of it. I never felt that flame. My God came for me and I left my body with Him.
          Now I come to lend essence, essence built in final contribution. (She knows I know that term.)
          (This is the definition of strength now, right?)
          >>Yes. That each garners strength from walking his or her own path, but walk it they must. With total awareness, if possible. Inhabit it with your heart (no half-way). Love it, as a heart does. Stand not outside of it. Wrap yourself in it, but with the goal of bringing it to God.
          (Useful for me to read more, watch the movies?)
          Yes. To be aware of of what you can. To remember me.
          (Was I there?)
          Ma mere. You still follow the code of justice. You did not let it rest, once my father had died. Part of why you don’t long to go to France again. Or England, really.
          ………………….
          This was a different kind of messaging for me–I could feel her, and she was coming through in French and English. I took a few years of French in college, so could catch some things. Also, I felt her words and mine were mixed, more than with others, because we were somehow together on this.
          Interesting that, in this life, my family is French and English and that we come from the same region of France Jeanne does (Lorraine), and that my name, Jane, is close to Jeanne.
          I’m glad she said to keep reading, because I went on to read the transcripts of the rehabilitation/nullification trial her mother instigated that removed her conviction as a heretic, in 1455, twenty-four years after her death. She wasn’t canonized as a saint until 1920.
          She told her mother, Isabelle, “I was born to do this.”
          ……………………
          My sources said: “… her potential [e.g., to lead armies] was activated beyond anything she could have imagined. This is how her strengths are built from her own habits [of connecting with her sources]. Ideally, this is how our habits would work–to build our own best strengths–habits of dedication, of acting on beliefs …”
          I can see how habits are character. How we surround ourselves with our own behaviors to create a life.
          Jeanne said that our habits could address the spiritual longing at our core.
          My sources said: “… [Her story] is the pull of our own story to its own greatness. Our willingness to the adventure, our enthusiasm for the wholeheartedness of it, our eagerness to feel it through to the end … The more she acted on her knowing, the stronger it got. Her life was about taking the actions directed by her voices. Her actions were the only thing that made it real here, that made it all exist …”
          >>I was vitalized by the voices, vitalized into action. The voices sustain me–I feel as clear and strong as my saints. But I think of my mother, of the hillsides of Domremy and the sheep leading me through them, knowing their way, when eventide, to their home. I long to feel that rough earth beneath my feet. I love the same things you love. The camaraderie of warm feelings between any of us over a fire at eventide. Like the sheep, we draw to each other as one. I feel it most at mass, as the Eucharist comes into me, and I’m renewed as a lamb of God.
          (I think she’s saying these are the people she can act among–these people whom she could share meals and Eucharist with–they’re always out there. They are part of what makes her action possible, who she fights for, lives for, dies for. So many did help her and follow her [a reported 16,000 soldiers at one point] and die for her. … Like the voices, they sustained her, making her actions possible …)
          I think there is more to come from her.

          1. Jane, a multitude of thanks for sharing. I found some of the transcripts of her trial on line and just started to read them. Together with your communication with her, I have a feeling this is going to be the beginning of an eye-opening (soul expanding) experience. By the way my middle name is Jeanne.

          2. Looking very much forward to further reports! “strengths are built from her own habits”. Exactly! Our comfort-oriented lifestyle is like a perfect antidote to inner strength. And that freak turn that has made religions into cudgels to beat up others – tools to justify hatereds. Strange storms we are sailing in these times.

  2. Since this post is from 2009, I was just wondering how things worked out for Jon Holt? Was he able to use this information and did his life change for the better so that he wanted to continue it?

  3. When “times are tough” I think of a comment TGU made when discussing Jesus and his work … maybe in the Gospel of Thomas posts (?)

    TGU has referred several times to Jesus as ‘the world’s most perfect man.’ In this comment they pointed out that even for him, things (life) were not always the way he wanted. (I hear “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” as I type … odd for a non-Christian?)

    If he had to struggle with ‘non-perfection’ in his life, I certainly can give it (3D life) my best shot.
    Jim

  4. …Jane & all….I`m speechless!

    MY gratitude to you all many a times over likewise. Absoutely fantastic Jane and Karla`s experience with yours!

    I have ALWAYS enjoyed to read & study the human biographical histories. I was not that (in particular) much interested in France and the French history as my late mother. She could not read engish or French at all(only Danish, Swedish & Norwegian), but my mom had a sort of “all-knowing” about France & the historian annals).

    But, on the other hand to have had a keen interest in the ROMAN EMPIRE all the way in particular — including when the Romans invading Britain.
    I do BELIEVE the CELL-Memories (built-into our physical bodies) are always laying latent within our bodies….AND, when the body”recognizing”it (as the dejavu emotions)as something beyond our ordinary, restricted, daily concepts(according to Seths`, done by ourselves) – and when the memoirs, and/or coming to the surface, then our own body telling us(the goose-bumps)”to have hit the target.”

    I have a old book titled:”…when your body knows(the bodily knowledge of “to know”) … “more than you, ourself, do…” Each cell of the body “a living memory”, which we are to change all the way, every single moment.”

    It is all beautiful really.

  5. Thanks for all the support for my Jeanne entry. Like Frank, I always think I could just be nuts, but I hardly care any more. If it comes, it comes. But the encouragement is great to get. I hope to continue to see where the Jeanne connection goes.
    And I still agree with the idea we could all meet someday.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.