March 19, 2002:
R: All right, this time we have a tape recorder. Let’s see if we can review some of the things we talked about last time. One of the things that I asked about was the noition of your planting an idea that leads to a question. What I remember about your response was that you talked quite a bit about the energy resonating together.
TGU: Let us repeat that again while we have the tape recorder on. What we were saying was that the interaction between our side and your side goes on continually, and it’s often not noticed on your side. You have what you think are stray hunches or ideas, or something that comes out of the blue, and often that’s us prompting you and you don’t really recognize it. And it’s not particularly important that you do. But, that’s what goes on, so that when we say we planted that idea, that’s not particularly unusual. And it doesn’t even mean that it’s particularly important, you know? It isn’t like 95% of your ideas are your ideas and the 5% that are ours are sparklers. It’s more like, we’re always doing it and you’re sometimes picking it up. It’s also that there are ideas that are just out there and sometimes you snag some.
And the other major thing that we mentioned was that we use you to prompt each other. That is to say, if you in your own mind think something, you may not even notice it, and if you notice it you might not pay attention to it. But if you hear someone say it to you, you’ll pay more attention to it, because you’re more accustomed to paying attention to the outside world, or what seems like the outside world. So, when we need to get someone’s attention, one way to do it is to use others around them. And another way, is of course, as Carl Jung recognized long ago, is we use all kinds of coincidences, so called: — dreams, thoughts, people, seemingly external objects, all of those things.
R: And I was asking you how does this process occur, you know, and how is –.
Here’s what I asked. I asked “is your energy system resonating with our energy system in these sessions,” and I think what you said is, “what’s the difference there? Why do you make that distinction?”
TGU: That’s right. That’s right. We’re always channeling Bill Clinton: “what do you mean by you?” Because you and us are the same –.
Supposing you had a garden hose that reached from you to us. You could, for some purposes, distinguish between the ends of the garden hose. But for other purposes, that would be a mere distinction that would cause trouble rather than clarifying it, you see? The one way emphasizes the difference, the other way emphasizes the continuation. Both true, it just depends on what you’re looking for.
R: Well one of the things I didn’t ask last week, but I meant to and thought about is that, it seems you call our attention to this a lot and I was wondering what your purpose is.
TGU: Merely to redress the balance. If you were continually aware of it, as some societies have been, will be, are, then we would be emphasizing the difference.
R: And a question I tacked onto that, which isn’t really part of the same thing, but let me ask it again. I was asking about the many, many energy groups that exist: How much interaction is there at your level among the energy groups that are operating. How much interaction is there between those energy groups?
TGU: Well, believe it or not, we’ve given quite a bit of thought as to how to try and explain this. And really, we go back to where we began, which is we think the easiest way, the most structured and textured and three dimensional way, is to make a direct analogy to your world. Just as it is with you, so it is with us — with the major exception that we are not divided into time slices, and that we do not have delayed consequences. Now those are major differences, of course. But, it should also show you, if you look at your own world as an analogy, the breadth and depths of the various differences and distinctions. You have some people who are scientists and some who are academics and some who are policemen, and some who are criminals and some who are, oh, politicians, and some who are military, some who are farmers. All of those can also be cut different ways. Some who are parents, some who are grandparents, some who are children. And could be cut different ways. Some that are liberal, some that conservative, and some that are agnostic, and some that are religious, and some that are– you see?
TGU: You can cut all those innumerable distinctions. There are some that are Chinese, some that are Caucasian, some that Negro, some that — you see? there’s this tremendous diversity, just among the few billion people you have on Earth, the same thing with us only even more so. But not in time slices and not in delayed consequences. Therefore, the lack of delayed consequences means it would seem to you that we change constantly and continually.
We keep calling it a light show. You know, that’s in reaction to each other. There’s a game that you sometimes play on computers now, or it doesn’t have to on computers, but some kind of a similation game where the proximity of one kind of symbol will extinguish or generate more of another kind of symbol. And what happens is you have a constantly changing game on the screen. Proceeding from the few simple rules, it changes the pattern. Well, our rules aren’t simple and they’re not necessarily rules, but the pattern changes in that same way. And because there’s no time slices, that means that our field of action is a lot wider than yours. And less concentrated.
R: Okay, now, I don’t know if this is a meaningless question or not, but if you think about the communication going on within your level, and the communication going on with our level, are you communicating with still other systems besides those that are on our level or your level?
TGU: [pause] Are you asking is there an equivalent system to the time-space, what you call 3-D theater?
R: Maybe that or anyhow, other dimensions or other realities, that are not just the same thing that’s going on here only in some different space-time situation.
TGU: Well, the only thing we can tell you directly is that we’re confident that everything is one, and so no matter what’s going on anywhere, there’s some part of us that knows some part that some part that connects to it. But you mustn’t think, as Frank always does, that we know everything and we are aware of everything. We will tell you, for instance– this occurs to us that we’ve never said this to you–think of your friend Dave Wallis, who you think of sitting in his laboratory and a part of him is sitting in his laboratory. Well, we can communicate to that particular energy system that is called Dave Wallis as a separate person. Or we can communicate with him — I don’t even know how to say it — we can flow with him, sort of. We can resonate with him. We can emphasize the difference between us, which is often worthwhile. Or can emphasize the sameness, the continuity, which is often worthwhile.
R: So, does that mean that there is a Dave Wallis that is functioning as part of what you are and a Dave Wallis that is functioning, as we were talking about before, in his laboratory or something like that?
TGU: No, no. It means that Dave functioning in his laboratory is part of what we are and part of we are is Dave in the laboratory. Just as part of what we are is you in 3-D theater, only there’s the barrier between us and you that makes it hard for you to really make that real to yourself. For him where he is now, there is no such barrier. So, it is real. But, at the same time, he’s not any less what he was. He was created out of the experience on your side. But, he didn’t cease to be created when he ceased to be on your side. That’s the point we’ve continually tried to get across. And failed, it sounds like. [they laugh]
R: Would you make that last point again?
TGU: Well, remember we’ve said, from our side, we put together some group of characteristics in there and put it into your side, creating an individual, so to speak. Well, that personality– remember we talked about crystals. If that personality crystallizes –
R: Yes, which I assume for Dave it did.
TGU: Sure, or he wouldn’t be there. When it goes back on the other side, there’s then this formed — you could look at it as a being, but we would look at it as part of our being, okay? This is like a formed facet on our overall crystal, you see. So, the whole purpose of this is to get more individuality, and it would be silly to lose it once you would drop your body.
R: Is he more a part of your reality. [coughing]I’m sorry, I have to deal with this cough.
TGU: Bodies are great inconveniences.
R: I don’t know if I can get this back. I was going to use your words. Did you say he’s more a part of us now than he was?
TGU: No, no. We’re saying you are as much as much a part of us as he is. But he’s more aware of it now. That is to say he’s aware of it, not as a theoretical or even as a belief system, but, just in his day to day existence he knows it. You are not any less a part of us than anything else. It’s just that the illusion of your individuality is so hard for you to see as an illusion, that’s all. [pause] Which is Frank’s problem, whether he knows it or not.
R: Can you say some more about that? How is it Frank’s problem?
TGU: Well, he may never have put this together, and we don’t think he has, but the reason he finds it so hard to live there is because he knows he’s not an individual, but he’s –. Let’s see. [pause] The very reason why the barrier is there, is the reason why, in his case (since it’s halfway not there) it makes his life so hard for him. Do you understand?
R: The fact that he’s not altogether here, that’s what makes it harder?
TGU: The fact that the barrier’s not altogether here. Yes, because it makes him acutely homesick and –. He hasn’t the fear of, “if I die what will happen?” He knows what will happen and he can’t wait and so — that’s why the barrier is put there for people, to help them to not only to form a character around a certain time and place, as we’ve talked about before, but a subsidiary benefit is, it grounds you in Earth as well as in a particular time and space. That is, it orients you to the body. And as the years go on, he’s become even more so. He’s half-oriented here and half-oriented on your side. And there’s a purpose to that, but it’s not easy. So -.
R: And so, is doing this kind of work making it harder?
TGU: Oh, no, it allows him to complain to us and that’s okay. [laughs] We would just tell him to stop complaining. We wouldn’t tell him to stop complaining, we would say, “feel free to complain but, you know what your doing, and you’re doing it, so, what’s the problem?” And he would then say, “Oh you guys are so cold.” [they chuckle]
R: Is that why most of us are not more in touch with your side, because it would make our Earth experience harder?
TGU: [pause] Well, it’s true that it would make your experience harder, initially, but, no we wouldn’t say that’s the reason why. We would invert that and say, the reason why he’s a little different is that he’s breaking a trail, just as many of you are breaking the trail and the coming people will not have this barrier. But it has been necessary for a long time — as you see things — before this. You can never understand what it’s like to be isolated unless you’ve been isolated. Then when you begin living in less isolation, you will not be taking it for granted, you’ll be consciously aware of the differences. We’re talking not of one person of course, we’re talking you in general.
R: So, the coming people won’t be as uncomfortable with that because they’ll understand this process better, or –
TGU: No, they won’t be as uncomfortable with it because they’ll be more of them. Just as you could look at Bob Monroe is a pioneer, very alone, and very alone in another sense, because he was doing something without the benefit of seeing where it had already gone, whereas you all can see where it went, and therefore you see everything that went though differently than he did, because you can see it point backwards. So, it’s just the interest and the use of skill of being a pioneer is at the same time the difficulty. Not much fun being a pioneer if you’ve got a four-lane highway going where it is that you’re leading toward.
R: While we’re on the subject, let me just ask about what Frank’s going through now — feelings of depression or whatever. Is that related to this?
TGU: You mean to the work you’re doing?
R: To the topic we’re just been on that he’s —
TGU: Yes, very much related to the topic. Not related to the work you’re doing. The work you’re doing is an antidote. Because it has meaning, you see.
R: But the fact that he’s relatively alone with the work he’s doing by himself, is part of the thinking that goes with that.
TGU: Well, it’s more like he’s relatively alone, period. Whatever work he does makes him less alone, you see. Your society commonly doesn’t necessarily realize that work is a connection. That’s why it’s so terrible to have meaningless work.
R: It’s connection with others here and with the other side as well.
TGU: Well, yes. The medieval Catholics would have called it a vocation, and they would’ve termed that, not meaning priestly vocation, but one’s vocation, one’s calling, the thing that had called them, was that person’s part of the overall jigsaw puzzle. Now, you can have a 500,000-piece jigsaw puzzle, conceivably. And any one piece that wasn’t there would make it an incomplete and less satisfying puzzle. So, there’s no such thing in that kind of concept as a meaningless job or a meaningless life. It’s a concept that you find harder to really understand in your age than they would have five, six, seven hundred years before. Today– that is, today for you– you think of “important jobs” and “important people” and “unimportant jobs” and “unimportant people.” And so the person who cleans your house is not as important as the person who is a lawyer or public official or whatever. And yet, of course, from our side, that’s totally distorted.
Now, this is also not to say that the person who cleans your house is more important than the public official or whatever. What’s most important is the person who is the most real and performs that function — not the job function, but performs the function they came in to function as, the flower they’re creating — the better they do that, the more perfect the flower they are. We know this contradicts what we said about even the drunk lying in the gutter creates a flower, but let’s that for the moment. That’s true as well, but, since it distorts the point we’re trying to make, we’re going to ignore it. [they laugh]
R: Well, do you have any suggestions for Frank in going through these experiences that we haven’t already talked about? Or that you talked about with him?
TGU: We’ve told him repeatedly and — you know, the only real thing — is just a matter of courage and perseverance. We didn’t say it was easy.
R: And so, his expressions of wanting this all to be over are just part of his frustrations as he goes through this?
TGU: Well, you know, don’t underestimate how therapeutic it is for him to be able to tell somebody that. It’s a real feeling and it’s a continual feeling, and it’s as real as any other part of his life, and so, therefore, it deserves the respect that every other part of his life deserves. From him as well as from others. You all have a tendency, if we may say so, to judge everything in your lives and say “well, this is worthwhile and that’s not worthwhile.” And we want to know, if it’s not worthwhile, how come it got into your life?
TGU: How do you like them apples? [laughs]
R: Yes. Yes, I’m not going to take that one on. [chuckles]
TGU: We’ll come back to it sometime.
R: Is there anything else that comes up right now as we’re thinking about it that happened last time while we weren’t recording that we should mention?
TGU: Well, we’ll mention just for the record, the question was asked about UFO’s and we said that they’re two kinds of UFOs. And one are ones that are created in your reality in your space-time by people. The other are things that come from anther time and space, and they get here by manipulating time as well as space. Okay, otherwise, it would take them too long. And we said they come from seven different places. And Frank had a lot of trouble with overlay that night because he knows that people say they come from the Pleiades, they come from other places. He doesn’t have the data and therefore, in a way, we don’t have the data. We could probably go find out. But, we’re not inclined to bother. Unless it becomes important to you.
Now, the major thing that we said of importance the other night, was in relation to the Jane Katra workshop. And that was that you all not allow that very worthwhile, and indeed almost a grace-filled experience, to be isolated in your lives as a one-time experience. That we strongly suggested that you find ways to incorporate it in your life on a daily basis. And we would wager that already you have forgotten to do that. And we know that he has. And this will make your lives richer and deeper.
R: Well I had thought about that. Mainly, I think of just pointing to the importance of mediation in our lives. But, Frank talked more about the possibility of some group activity around it.
TGU: Yes, and that’s stemming directly from what we were giving him because – (you notice how we take credit for things that are pretty good?)
R: Even the questions.
TGU: Even the questions. Meditation is fine. And it absolutely is great and you can put that in your routine and there’s nothing at all wrong with that. However, group activity is better, for two reason. One, it assures that you keep it on the schedule. And two, when fall asleep, there are others there to wake you. and it’s just vitally important. There’ll be a day, perhaps, when it is not. But, at your stage of life, it is, because there are none of you that are — if we may say so — continually awake. Well, if you know you are going to meet on a regular basis, in one place or in a rotating place, with the same people or some subset of the same people, that itself is going to help you stay on beam. And then beyond that, you will sometimes go, thinking that you’re awake but not being awake, and the process of being there will wake you up. It’s remarkably difficult — this is, after all, one of the underlying reasons for monasteries. Part of it was economic, part of it was convenience, but the largest part is to wake each other up. They may not have even always known that, but that’s what happened — can happen.
So, in our love for all of you, we want you to live as rich and full an experience as you can, and one way to do that is to not take that kind of grace-filled experience and isolate it off from the rest of your life, but, not only use it to connect to other parts of yourself upstairs, but, to connect with yourselves, person to person, which is another part of yourself. That, we would say, was the most important thing we said the other night. Much more important than UFOs.
R: Okay. You in an illustration, I think, last week, used the phrase of pulling Frank’s ear.
TGU: No, that was -. Well, yes, it was an illustration, but it was literally true.
R: Well, I assumed it was. I heard it that way. Which emphasizes the question I’d already planned to ask last week and didn’t, which is, what about these experiences we have of what seems like a physical contact with a non-embodied energy? What is happening there?
TGU: Well, first, let’s describe more carefully than we did what happened. Now, here’s the interesting thing. We’re going to try and describe it as he saw it, and then describe the difference between what he felt and what he described. Not because he’s a bad reporter — he’s actually usually a pretty good reporter — but because it demonstrates the difficulty of the things. In other words, some things take so long to describe that are not intrinsically worth it, that they never get really adequately described, and therefore confusion enters.
He was sort of drifting a little and he felt something tweaking his ear, just pulling his right earlobe down. But, he didn’t feel it in his first body, he felt it in the second body. And he only felt as a sort of — it was more real than a dream and not his actual physical ear. So, it took him a second to remember that he had felt it, if you can understand that. And then when he mentioned it -– well, I mean he mentioned it through us — but he actually chooses the words, you know? He did not – we did not — go to the extra effort of making clear that what happens often on these things, which appears to you as a quasi-physical-body-experience, is usually a second body experience, as it was with him. In other words, we’ve gone over and tweaked his ear on the second body — energetic body– not on the physical body. And of course, your energetic body doesn’t really have an ear, but it seems to you to. If you know what we’re saying.
And so what happened was — let’s see how to say this [pause] You know that when you are attempting to maintain your presence in an altered state, in an expanded state, it’s easy to drift off. Or it’s how it seems to you. It’s easy to go beyond seeming continuity of consciousness. So, that you then “wake up” as it seems to you and say, “Oh where was I?” You know. We wouldn’t see it that way. If we’re not mistaken, that’s how you see it.
We would say, what happens is you go into new territory and sort of attenuate the connection with your ordinary consciousness and the interpreter, as Bruce Moen calls it, that’s always there interpreting what you’re seeing. Without the interpretation, you have pure perception. But, without something in your brain — metaphorically speaking — to compare that to something, you don’t bring anything home. Well, if in the middle of that process, you’re interrupted, it will seem to you like you drifted a little bit and then came back. In other words, you still won’t quite remember where you were, because you still don’t have anything to compare it to. And so, there’s no data there to bring back. But you experience it as continuity of consciousness still, but you say to yourself, “well I was drifting.” And what happened was –.
You see, even the tweaking of the earlobe was more of a metaphor than an actual experience because, as we say, your second body doesn’t have an earlobe. But, if you’ll look at your life as a dream, it isn’t any more of a dream to tweak your second body’s earlobe, then it would be in physical matter to tweak the regular earlobe. They’re both metaphors for calling your attention back to your body. And we know that sounds impossibly abstract, but that’s really pretty accurate. We’ll go through it again, if you want. Or, go on.
R: No, but I guess I’m saying, what happens from your end in that kind of event?
TGU: What do you mean by what happens on our end?
R: Well, were you responsible for tweaking his ear?
TGU: Well –.
[pause] We were about to say “the short answer is yes,” but, actually — this is very confusing — we don’t know.
We could take credit for it and you could never prove it wasn’t us. [laughs] But actually how can that be? That’s very interesting. Actually it as though something — it’s as though there was an external agent operating and we didn’t notice.
R: Let’s see how to think about this. Is there some part of you that seems more embodied than other parts of you? At your level?
TGU: You mean part of us that’s closer to your end and part of us that isn’t? Yeah, but it’s called you. [laughs] We know what you mean.
R: Well, but I’m asking if it seems like some -.
TGU: No, if we had done it, we would know it. And we didn’t, actually. And the short answer to that is it was an external agent, that we weren’t really even -.
Well, again, you see, here it goes again. By your asking the right question, you made us conscious of something we weren’t really conscious of. You’ve done this a couple times before. If you will go beck to the rubber glove analogy, and the rubber glove through the veil, and on your end it all seems separate — well, this is another one of the fingers in the rubber glove that came over and tweaked our rubber glove, so to speak. Apparently. We actually don’t know. We can tell you that it was not us and it was not another level of him either. It was a –
[pause] You might as well say it was a helper or an angel. Not so bad an idea either, really. See, we’re not the only game in town.
R: Well the reason this is very important to me is because I have had this experience now, twice, of what seemed like physical contact with people that I have thought of as disembodied. A friend of mine who died who came back and was stroking my arm in such a way as I felt like there’s no way in the world I made that up.
TGU: No, that’s not necessary as a hypothesis.
R: In another instance, actually, a sexual contact, by a person from the other side.
TGU: What we would like you to do now: Take a moment, relive the easier of the two experiences and feel it carefully to see, was it actually a physical or was it a second-body feel to it. Now don’t answer that one too fast, because at first he might have said his ear was tweaked, and when he thought about it a little and we prodded him a little, it was a second-body experience, actually. Now we not saying what the answer will be, but we’re just saying we’ll see.
R: You know, the only thing I’m absolutely sure of is that my eyes were closed and I was in a very relaxed meditative state, and I felt the stroking of the arm.
TGU: And it felt like your physical arm?
R: It felt like my physical arm to the point where I had a startle response, opened my eyes to see who was there. And I was sure who this was because it was reflection of the way I’d been working with somebody in the hospital before they died.
TGU: Okay. Now, the question is —
R: I can’t believe it’s something I made up.
TGU: Why would you bother? [laughs] Why would you bother to believe it?
R: But my understanding of thing suggests that it would be very difficult — extremely difficult — from an energy that has now moved out of the body –.
TGU: Yes, yes, yes. You making a basic mistake here, though. You know, in another part of yourself, that in fact all the sensations that you could ever feel are actually put together inside your mind. It’s much easier to manipulate the feelings that you feel inside your mind than it is to move the hairs on your arms, so to speak. In other words, there’s no reason for you to assume it’s that it’s physically impossible for a disembodied person to make you feel like they’ve touched your arm. But there’s two ways to do that. And one way is to touch your arm. And the other way is to, how shall we say, manipulate the neurons, so that you feel the same thing because it’s indistinguishable for you. You see?
R: And manipulating the neurons would be somehow different than actual touch on your skin?
TGU: Well, we won’t flatly say that it would be easier. But, it would be —
Actually, there’s no real need to go into the speculation. If you will remember Bob Monroe in second-body state pinching someone and then having the actual bruise from the pinch, that would give you a sense of it. Certainly you know about poltergeists and an extensive literature of what can only be described as disembodied physical contact with the body. In those cases, there’s no need to postulate that it’s just a change in neurons. The bruises are there, the –.
On the other hand, though, a bruise doesn’t prove anything. You know. You know that a hypnotist can touch you with a pencil, telling you it’s a hot iron, and raise a blister. So, neither one is conclusive and in a way it doesn’t matter. We would say flatly there’s no reason at all for you to think that it’s either, on the one hand, your imagination, or on the other hand, an impossibility. Why not just go more into the question of the meaning of the contact, would be our advice.
R: Well, I understand the important of that. But, it’s very mysterious when you say you’re not responsible for the tweak of Frank’s ear.
TGU: Well, yeah. We weren’t but someone else was. That’s what we realized after we had to think about that a little bit. In other words, we’re not the only game in town. There’s millions of spirits, millions of extensions from our side to your side, that interact with you all the time.
R: Yeah, but I was so sure about the energy of the person that was stroking my arm.
TGU: That doesn’t mean you’re wrong. Why should it mean you’re wrong?
R: Well, I suppose I’m asking –. You’re saying, okay this is possible, this no big deal. And I’m saying, gosh I thought it was a big deal.
TGU: [laughs] Well let’s make a distinction. Psychologically it’s a tremendous big deal.
TGU: But in terms of –
Okay. Supposing you got a telegram and the telegram told you that someone you thought was dead was alive. The content of the telegram is a tremendous big deal. The fact that you got a telegram is no big deal. That’s what we’re saying. Although of course, in your case, it would be a big deal because no one sends telegrams anymore. [they laugh] But, they can e-mail and you’ll understand. The mechanism is not a big deal. The psychological importance is a fabulous big deal.
R: Well, so let’s go back to Frank for a minute. What was going on with this?
TGU: It was just a little bit of help. He was drifting and this was -.
That’s all that was going on.
R: So there’s somebody looking out for him besides you.
TGU: Oh, heck yes. You all have many angels. It’s just we -.
It was funny, really. We’re having the most amazing experiences with you. [laughs] It’s like the time you had us feel emotions. We just were trying to fit ourselves into the role of having tweaked his ear and realized, no. we didn’t do that. It was funny.
R: is there anything comparable that you’ve done with Frank?
TGU: Well, see, no, we tend to do the mental influencing, and to a degree the spiritual influencing if you want to say it like that. But, no we don’t — we don’t do windows.
R: So, those are such different categories of things that some –
Is there a – I don’t know how to ask this.
TGU: Well, we know where you’re going with this, we think. I don’t know that that’s too productive. Well, it may become productive. Go ahead if you want to. You’re saying, do we have division of labor.
R: Well, yes, I wouldn’t put it that way. But, it seems like operating on quite a different level to be in a spirit world where you’ve used examples like poltergeists or something like that, playing around with material objects –
TGU: It’s not harder than what we’re doing. After all —
R: Oh, it’s not any harder.
F: It’s not any harder, no, of course not.
R: But it seems very different. One seems much more spiritual than the other. [chuckles]
TGU: Mm-hmm, and there’s your word “seems” again.
R: Right, well at our end, one of those is very much more spiritual than the other.
TGU: Well, the way you’ve categorized it. But we say to you that your bodies are holy. They are as holy as anything else because they are manifestations of spirit. That’s all there is. There isn’t anything else. [pause] We know that seems contrary to fact but -.
R: I guess maybe the distinction I’m making here is that some of this seems so sort of random, and really I used the word playing around, but it does sound like that. And the other is a much more — well, incredibly powerful experience of feeling a contact. I don’t mean feeling in the physical sense but I mean all that implies, a contact with the non-embodied state. This is not a common experience in the world.
TGU: Do you think what you’re doing right now is a common experience in the world? [laughs]
R: Well, no.
TGU: But well, it’s more common than is admitted, for one thing. We would argue that most people have that experience and either wall it off from themselves or certainly wall it off from most others. Just as you’re not going to go around broadcasting it either. Although, you’re doing much like that by putting it out on this transcript.
R: I think maybe Frank won’t type this part up.
TGU: Well, not if you ask him not to. But you see the point. You don’t really have the data on that because you have such a skewed sample. Most people will either not remember or not want to talk about it. Or not dare, let’s say, talk about it. But, if you’re calling us random and playing around, we’re going to be highly insulted. [they laugh] We won’t say you’re wrong, but we’re highly insulted. But, to serious and go back there, remember now that tweaking of his ear –
[change sides of tape]
Frank: I just said it was funny to feel them not know the answer to the thing about tweaking the ear. And I just realized they probably just went to each other and said, “did you do it?” “No, I didn’t do it.” “Did you do it?” “No I didn’t do it.” But I mean, that part’s conjecture, I didn’t hear that. But there was this real puzzlement. And then they said, “well somebody else did it.”
R: Yes. For you, as you had the experience, it wasn’t personalized to them, is that right?
Frank: That’s right. I felt the tweaking of the ear and I did sort of feel that it was a quasi-dream experience, that’s how it feels like. And they’re right: The only thing that it did — because I didn’t pay any attention to who it was or what — I knew that it was a bringing me back and I did go back because that’s what I was concentrating on. It did, in fact, re-center me on that expanded state. Sounds funny to talk about being centered in an expanded state.
Oh, that was the difficulty, is what they’re saying. To be centered and to be in an altered state is an acquired accomplishment. Which is why it’s difficult for us because we’re learning more of it.
R: It’s easy to just drift, when you’re in an altered state rather than -.
TGU: Yes, That’s why you need to be operating with a surrogate left brain, as Monroe used to say. That’s why it’s been so productive these past few years, because it’s the first technique to be invented in your time to allow you to both stay in an altered state and function as though you were not. A nice little trick.
TGU: We would suggest that he did not come to that trick by accident. And not because he was a bright boy either. [laughs] He had help.
R: He had some help. Okay, are we ready to move on to another question?
TGU: Whatever you want.
R: I had some questions around the issue of how our consciousness connects to the human body. And I’m not saying it’s a characteristic of the human body, but, the fact that our consciousness seems to hang around with us –
I was wondering when an infant is born, is consciousness already surrounding the body? And also, before the baby is born, when it’s in utero, is the consciousness already surrounding the body, but not in a way that the body tunes into it?
TGU: Tell us what you mean by consciousness. You don’t surely mean a -? Well, what do you mean by consciousness?
R: I mean the part of us, what seems like us, that is not attached to the physical body but seems to rise and fall with it.
TGU: But you don’t mean surely a sense of yourself as an individual, because, of course, a baby doesn’t have that.
TGU: So, what do you mean? Do you mean like a central receiving system for the various nerves of the body?
R: That might be the way to think about it. Is it there? Is it always there? Is it gradually as in a physical body you learn to come in touch with it?
TGU: We would look at it this way. We would say the consciousness goes over first, the physical body forms around the consciousness, and the consciousness learns to operate the mechanism. Now, there’s a lot more to operating the mechanism than just learning all the nerves and muscles and the conscious and subconscious processes of keeping your diving suit working. There’s interpreting the world — this may seem strange to you — interpreting the world only through the senses. That’s very difficult. Because as you know, your senses are reducing valves, and they let in only a small amount of what’s potentially there. And the whole point of your being in a body is to reduce the input to a very –.
All right, we need to say this a little carefully. The whole point of being in a body, at present — until, now — has been to reduce the flow of input to something that could only be experienced by whoever was in that diving suit at that time, at that place. Because, to the degree that a person could have a focussed experience, it would emphasize that individuality. It would shape the flower more elaborately, shall we say. And everything we’re saying is also not true, it’s so over simplified. But we’re trying to make a point here. Let’s do this and then we’ll come back with the caveats maybe.
You form a consciousness — that is to say we form a consciousness — it comes over to your side. The body forms around it. The mind forms — and see, a mind forms, using the brain, but not dependent on the brain. As the consciousness learns to live within the body, it limits itself more and more to sensory inputs, by design. That’s what’s supposed to happen.
Now, what’s also supposed to happen is that the sensory inputs in one sense and the non-sensory inputs in another sense — what you today might call left brain or right brain differences. Now, some societies have been structured in such a way as to shut down one side or the other side; some have been structured so as to help both function together. You know, societies, like individuals, are flowers. They have their own characteristics. And in order to manifest those characteristics, they suppress all contradictory characteristics. It’s not one that’s right and one that’s wrong, it’s just each one has its own — you know, they’re out to show one thing, to be one thing.
So, in your society, you will have in some social strata, people who only recognize sensory input, only recognize logic, and live according to what they sense. Whereas, of course, other do not.
Now, you have also individuals with very restricted minds. In other words, they might be autistic, they might be retarded, they might be physically handicapped so that they get very little sensory data. You know, they might be blind and deaf. In each of those cases, there is a consciousness functioning with severely restricted input, and we will tell you, as we have told you before, this is not a tragedy, this is just an experiment. Or perhaps we shouldn’t say an experiment: a flowering. It’s there for a reason. Does that change your view of it, at all? You’re aiming for something. Show us what you need —
R: I am asking a very abstract question here, which has to do with how this process works — which is my main theme in life, I guess. You said the consciousness is formed to join this new physical life.
TGU: This is primary. Consciousness comes first.
R: Yes, okay. But, it’s like, it’s new at that point? It’s a part of your consciousness? It’s a -.
TGU: That’s right. Remember now, let’s leave aside the question of reincarnation. Whenever a part of us is determined and formed on your side — you know, with certain characteristics; we’ve been through all that — we take certain bundles, and this bundle is going to develop on your side — the external circumstances are chosen for just that reason, and therefore, the body is developed around that potential, just as the family, you might say, is developed around that potential. Now, sometimes we can’t get exactly what we want, and so, we have to make do. We’ve talked about that. “We have this characteristic and this one and this one.” “well, we’ll have to put up with that one because we can’t–” you know. But, within those limits, the physical body has been shaped as closely as can be to provide exactly the experience that that incoming spirit wants and needs, and intends.
It isn’t the other way around, which is the way it looks to you. You all tend to think of it as, first comes the body and the brain, and then comes the spirit to live in it. But, that’s backwards.
R: Okay. I’m not asking that right now. I’m asking, where this piece of consciousness, that comes to a new body here–. Is this sort of pulled from the body of consciousness from your side?
TGU: Remember we told you we can do it a couple of ways? We can form a new bundle and send it across, or we can run it through a formerly existent life. And we’ve never been able to clarify that exactly, but we can use that to polarize this other life coming in. And we do that more often than not, we would say, actually.
That is, that kind of polarization gives the new life more resources to draw from, because it gives it closer connections on our side. It gives it relatives, in a way. On your side, you know, if you have relatives, you may or may not get along with them, you may not even like them, but you have certain things in common and you can count on each other for certain things. That’s a loose analogy of what we’re talking about here. If the new consciousness is formed through an older consciousness that’s already been here (or been elsewhere. perhaps it was on Arcturus, you know) it has more -.
It seems to it that it knows more. It has more to draw on. It’s the equivalent of the difference between what you call new souls and old souls. An old soul has been drawn through something else. A new soul may come in totally on its own, so to speak.
R: First time in this physical.
TGU: Here’s the funny thing. They’re both the first time in this physical. But the one doesn’t seem like it’s the first time because it has been sort of drawn through another. To it, it appears like it is the long end of a sequence. You know, it had all these so-called past lives. But, in reality, they’re both new, it’s just that the one has been drawn through the other ones.
We’re getting closer to an analogy you might like. It’s been energetically connected. It’s been wired, not right, it’s been –
Oh, we thought we were close to an electronic analogy that you could have heard. But we can’t find it at the moment. Anyway, you get the idea. You don’t think that’s central to what you’re asking, anyway.
R: No, just – it’s just my obviously very limited visualization powers around something like that. It’s as though a body of energy is coming across in some way to get attached to a physical energy, and that body of energy may or may not have been through other similar experiences of being attached to something physical.
TGU: You know, there’s no reason you shouldn’t think of that body of energy coming across as a baby, in the same way that its physical body will be a baby. That might help you a little bit. Because you in general tend to think of it as a fully mature, alive, alert, all-knowing, all-seeing, all-being [they chuckle] coming in and sort of getting stuck in this little baby that can’t do anything.
R: Yeah, I think there is that kind of tendency, right.
TGU: Well, if you’ll think of it as a babe in the woods coming into a baby, it might be a little more accurate. Think how lost you’ll be when you come over here, until you learn the ropes. Same thing the other way around. Because it not only has to function by hooking up to all the wires that run the machine; it also is a bundle of energies that is for the first time operating together. And it has it has to deal with the other aspects of itself and learn to act together. Just as a baby doesn’t know that its left foot has any connection with its right hand until it gets used to dealing with them as one, so your internal self, that came over from here, had to learn to deal with itself as if it were one. If it doesn’t do that successfully — or profitably, shall we say — then you don’t crystallize and we use those materials at another time. But, if it does crystallize, they’ll stay together as one. [pause] We haven’t made much progress on that, we know.
R: No, I think I’m following that. Let me move on to thinking about shared —
TGU: May we say, your going from one thing to another actually works very well for us. And then bringing it up again later at another session. That works very for us, so you needn’t worry about it.
R: I was moving towards telepathy here. I was thinking about consciousness shared in some way. I mean, is that what were dealing with in telepathy or the sharing of consciousness?
TGU: Well, the same old questions. What do you mean by shared? What do you mean by “between whom”? You know. Make a specific example. If you and Frank shared something telepathically –?
R: Yes. Is this a shared consciousness? Is that a way to think about the consciousness issue? We share consciousnesses?
TGU: Well, we think the easiest way — it’s not absolutely true, but the easiest way is, of course, to think of it as — you share a consciousness with something on the other side; he shares a consciousness with something on the other side, and they can talk and bring it to each of you. You know, you can each send a telegram to the central exchange, which sends the telegram to the other.
However, having sent that, remember we’re always reminding you that individuals are a convenient fiction, they are not an absolute. So, for you to say, “do we share a consciousness” — whether it’s you and him or anyone — almost begs the question because you can’t help it, in a very limited sense. Now, really what it amounts to is, “is there a resonance sufficiently close that another person and I respond to the same stimulus at the same time.” That’s one way of looking at it. The answer to that is that anyone knows that not only lovers, but people who live together over a period of time come to intuitively understand each other well beyond predicted range, so that one can start a sentence and the other can finish it without any clues. It’s just a matter of the resonance having been established so deeply that it just sort of happens without having to be worried about.
We don’t think telepathy is any big deal, because it can be one of two things. It can be the resonance on your end just strictly between individuals at you level — individuals so-called — and/or it can be both of you being in good connection with your upstairs, which passes the message.
R: Oh, there was this question about a short book that Frank had in mind, I don’t know why he emphasized the “short,” but, he did. The short book that he’s thinking about. I’m not sure he’s thinking about.
TGU: We would say it’s the book that he doesn’t have in mind. That’s the problem. He awoke with it and lost it. If he had it in mind, he wouldn’t have a problem.
R: Is there anything you want to remind him about that?
TGU: Well, you see, he’s becoming aware — almost for the first time– that in writing a book one needs to think about the audience’s needs, rather than his need to express what he wants to say. That’s a different thing. And he’s becoming very aware that people need short books rather than long ones because they haven’t the patience to get through the longer ones. Those who do, are the least likely to need them, let’s put it that way.
Now, having said that, we’re not absolutely convinced it was coincidental that he had a discussion with your brother-in-law the other day. (There’s a heavy sarcasm in the sentence.) [they laugh]
For just a moment, he had a glimpse of a possibility of speaking to people in a way that they might hear, and now has temporarily lost that glimpse and we would assume that it stays lost for the moment because it’ll come back in a more formed fashion after a while. And it’s not a coincidence that he forgot, more like this was a metaphorical tapping on the shoulder and saying, “pay attention, but the time is not just yet,” you see.
The simplest way to look at it is, he could take the ideas that we have given you over these times, put it into a very short book, by just removing all the examples and removing everything that isn’t required in order to get the point across. And it would indeed be a valuable book. But, you’re not quite ready to do that because you don’t yet have the thing that will twist the kaleidoscope and make it all come out just right. Okay?
R: My inclination is to stop there, unless you have something else.
TGU: This is fine with us, we’re glad to talk to you anytime.
R: Okay. Thank you for this interesting discussion.
TGU: Thank you for this interesting discussion.